What the hell were the last two decades?

[ulmont]

Darlin'(Sheilbh) - either Parliament is bound by its predecessors, or it cannot bind its successors, but not both.

[Barrister]

Darlin'(Sheilbh) - either Parliament is bound by its predecessors, or it cannot bind its successors, but not both.

Read Sheibh again - he said "No Parliament is bound by its predecessors and cannot bind its successors to anything. "

[Barrister]

I made this point before but it went ignored:

you guys are forgetting how technology like this can be used to protect against excessive or illegal actions by government agents.  I don't know how many of you have followed the Canadian story of the Polish immigrant that was tasered and died while in RCMP custody.  The RCMP officers claimed he was highly aggressive and assaulted them.  The security video showed a very different story and has caused a lot of questioning of the RCMP.

Hard to say that video cameras are a fascist instrument in such circumstances.

[Capetan Mihali]

I made this point before but it went ignored:

you guys are forgetting how technology like this can be used to protect against excessive or illegal actions by government agents.  I don't know how many of you have followed the Canadian story of the Polish immigrant that was tasered and died while in RCMP custody.  The RCMP officers claimed he was highly aggressive and assaulted them.  The security video showed a very different story and has caused a lot of questioning of the RCMP.

Hard to say that video cameras are a fascist instrument in such circumstances.

I believe people are arguing over a specific use of video cameras (i.e. government surveillance of public spaces) rather than the existence of the technology itself....

[Ed Anger]

  I don't know how many of you have followed the Canadian story of the Polish immigrant that was tasered and died while in RCMP custody.  The RCMP officers claimed he was highly aggressive and assaulted them.  The security video showed a very different story and has caused a lot of questioning of the RCMP.

Sounds like a hero to me.

[Barrister]

I made this point before but it went ignored:

you guys are forgetting how technology like this can be used to protect against excessive or illegal actions by government agents.  I don't know how many of you have followed the Canadian story of the Polish immigrant that was tasered and died while in RCMP custody.  The RCMP officers claimed he was highly aggressive and assaulted them.  The security video showed a very different story and has caused a lot of questioning of the RCMP.

Hard to say that video cameras are a fascist instrument in such circumstances.

I believe people are arguing over a specific use of video cameras (i.e. government surveillance of public spaces) rather than the existence of the technology itself....

BUt I was pointing out that video cameras in public spaces would help to protect against any allegations of police violence.  Which is still an alleged problem in several areas.

[jimmy olsen]

So if 'safeguards can and will fail', should the government give up on keeping any records?  Should we throw out fingerprint and DNA databanks?  Should police shred their notebooks at the end of the day (or week,or year, or whatever)?

Now perhaps you can state what is fundamentally different about CCTV cameras than about any other kind of information, but I haven't seen it yet.

With the exception of convicted felons or records for on going investigation, yes. The cameras aren't different, I don't want the government to have any of that.

That's not how it works at present.  Fingerprints are retained of anyone who is merely arrested.  All police notes are maintained, whether there are charges laid or not.

I didn't say that's how it works, I said that's how it should work.
Though I was referring to the DNA and fingerprints, notes seem okay to me.

[KRonn]

I think many people (me included) are more comfortable with someone surveilling a street in person (though having three cops on every corner would be equally eery) than an anonymous piece of tech equipment.

It's a psychological thing. Besides, if someone mugs you a cop can step in right away. With a camera the perp could be long gone by the time the footage is looked at by authorities - in the case of a city like Vienna that'd mean he could be two countries away.

Oh yeah, a camera is no substitute for a policeman but the cops can't be everywhere at once. Its a good stand in.
I think they work best as a deterrant rather than a catcher. As you say the guy could be long gone before the police show up and face detection software isn't good enough yet to pick him out of the crowd as he walks down the street a few days later. But still, that there could be this clear evidence of him commiting a crime and a bit of paranoia about just how effective the police response would be, helps work as a deterrant.
I can recall one time where some guy was looking to start a fight with me on the street and I pointed the camera out to him which made him back down (and likely go look for someone else who wasn't right in camera shot)

I think the thing we're missing is why have our societies come to a point where people fear, get attacked, and crime has become bad enough to where we have a need for cameras, or a lot more police. Is it due to changes in societal attitudes where more people feel alienated, what ever, to where they commit more and worse crimes? What's causing it? Or, are things not all that bad as before, just more reported? If we look at the US in the 20s and 30s we certainly had a lot of organized crime, sensationalized stories, or so it seems.

[DGuller]

I think the thing we're missing is why have our societies come to a point where people fear, get attacked, and crime has become bad enough to where we have a need for cameras, or a lot more police. Is it due to changes in societal attitudes where more people feel alienated, what ever, to where they commit more and worse crimes? What's causing it? Or, are things not all that bad as before, just more reported? If we look at the US in the 20s and 30s we certainly had a lot of organized crime, sensationalized stories, or so it seems.

Drugs, probably.  That, and people value their lives much more these days.  Crime and terrorism doesn't seem that scary when you lose 400,000 people a pop in a war, and actually are considered to have gotten off easy.

[Neil]

I think the thing we're missing is why have our societies come to a point where people fear, get attacked, and crime has become bad enough to where we have a need for cameras, or a lot more police. Is it due to changes in societal attitudes where more people feel alienated, what ever, to where they commit more and worse crimes? What's causing it? Or, are things not all that bad as before, just more reported? If we look at the US in the 20s and 30s we certainly had a lot of organized crime, sensationalized stories, or so it seems.

People don't actually believe in anything anymore.  They don't believe in god and they don't believe in the nation.  They are left with nothing larger than themselves.  Of course, there were always people who felt that way, but these days everybody does.

[dps]

I made this point before but it went ignored:

you guys are forgetting how technology like this can be used to protect against excessive or illegal actions by government agents.  I don't know how many of you have followed the Canadian story of the Polish immigrant that was tasered and died while in RCMP custody.  The RCMP officers claimed he was highly aggressive and assaulted them.  The security video showed a very different story and has caused a lot of questioning of the RCMP.

Hard to say that video cameras are a fascist instrument in such circumstances.

If he's dead, it's hard to say that the cameras did anything to protect him, either.

[Josquius]

How many times have to been randomly attacked or chased through the streets?

A few.

I think the thing we're missing is why have our societies come to a point where people fear, get attacked, and crime has become bad enough to where we have a need for cameras, or a lot more police. Is it due to changes in societal attitudes where more people feel alienated, what ever, to where they commit more and worse crimes? What's causing it? Or, are things not all that bad as before, just more reported? If we look at the US in the 20s and 30s we certainly had a lot of organized crime, sensationalized stories, or so it seems.

[Martinus]

I think the thing we're missing is why have our societies come to a point where people fear, get attacked, and crime has become bad enough to where we have a need for cameras, or a lot more police. Is it due to changes in societal attitudes where more people feel alienated, what ever, to where they commit more and worse crimes? What's causing it? Or, are things not all that bad as before, just more reported? If we look at the US in the 20s and 30s we certainly had a lot of organized crime, sensationalized stories, or so it seems.

People don't actually believe in anything anymore.  They don't believe in god and they don't believe in the nation.  They are left with nothing larger than themselves.  Of course, there were always people who felt that way, but these days everybody does.

I believe in freedom and justice for all, and the destruction of the patriarchal society rooted in the lethal superstition of religion.

[Ed Anger]

How many times have to been randomly attacked or chased through the streets?

A few.

hilarious.

[Josquius]

How many times have to been randomly attacked or chased through the streets?

A few.

hilarious.

Never succesfully