Georgia destroys Soviet monument, offends Russia

[Solmyr]

You would think getting a Georgian in supreme power in Russia where he could murder millions of Russians would have been enough revenge for the Georgians.

And incidentally, Stalin is far more popular in modern Georgia than he is in Russia.

[Martinus]

We have been having the same thing with removal of communist symbols and stuff like street name changes. However, there is imho a fine line between, say, changing the name of a street named after some communist government apparatchik, and one named after some pre-WW2 Polish communist activist who was killed by the nazis.

I think the problem when dealing with remnants of the old regime (especially non-occupant ones - like in Spain or, arguably, Poland) is do you limit yourself to removing stuff memorizing the really bad people, or do you also go after imagery that memorizes people who were not, in themselves, evil but whose names were used to further the regime's cause. This applies both to "retroactive heroes" the regime adopted as its "founding fathers" (people like Wagner for nazis, for example or Marx for communism), and for people like some worker in Poland who got a street named after him because he worked hard or something.

I don't think it's reasonable to go after the latter category on a rational level, but if these people's names evoke enough ill feeling, then it's certainly justifiable.

It's stupid, but people can do very stupid things when they feel reason for feigning slight.

It becomes a problem, though, when the central authorities try to change it but the locals wouldn't hear of it. We have a lot of cases like this in Poland these days.

[The Brain]

We should destroy Russia utterly. And we should erase even the memory of Russia from the histories! Every piece of Russian parchment shall be burned. Every Russian historian, and every scribe shall have their eyes pulled out, and their tongues cut from their mouths. Why, uttering the very name of Russia, or Putin, will be punishable by death! The world will never know they existed at all!

[Viking]

We should destroy Russia utterly. And we should erase even the memory of Russia from the histories! Every piece of Russian parchment shall be burned. Every Russian historian, and every scribe shall have their eyes pulled out, and their tongues cut from their mouths. Why, uttering the very name of Russia, or Putin, will be punishable by death! The world will never know they existed at all!

Ah, yes, the eternal swedish wet dream.

[Admiral Yi]

A Soviet monument is a Soviet monument.  Every time one of these is destroyed, it's to the benefit of humanity as a whole.  So the Soviets were fighting the Nazis-- big whoop.  Doesn't mean former Soviet satellite states shouldn't have the right to erase scars of Soviet occupation.

It *would* be appropriate to put up a monument to the Georgians who served or lost theri lives in WWII (I guess that's what the salvaged naked horseman is for), but I don't see why Georgians need to give a flying fig about Russians, etc.

The principle is worth defending.  How would you feel if the Flips blew up a Bataan monument?

[Barrister]

A Soviet monument is a Soviet monument.  Every time one of these is destroyed, it's to the benefit of humanity as a whole.  So the Soviets were fighting the Nazis-- big whoop.  Doesn't mean former Soviet satellite states shouldn't have the right to erase scars of Soviet occupation.

It *would* be appropriate to put up a monument to the Georgians who served or lost theri lives in WWII (I guess that's what the salvaged naked horseman is for), but I don't see why Georgians need to give a flying fig about Russians, etc.

The principle is worth defending.  How would you feel if the Flips blew up a Bataan monument?

Would depend why and how.  If they just blew it up that would be upsetting.  If however they identified a need for the space, took steps to presereve and relocate the monument, that should be fine.

I know the Indians and South Africans moved/changed a lot of Imperial-era British monuments and the Brits didn't manage to get too outraged.

[Solmyr]

It's worth noting that Estonia handled its memorial issue significantly better, by relocating it (arguably to an appropriate location) rather than outright destroying. Russian reaction was really over the top on that one.

[Sheilbh]

I know the Indians and South Africans moved/changed a lot of Imperial-era British monuments and the Brits didn't manage to get too outraged.

We move lots of Imperial-era monuments.  Many of them just aren't relevant.

If they touch the statue of Henry Purcell though I'm going mental.