Israeli organ borrowing revisited

[Pat]

If Israel truly has nothing to hide, it should lay all it's cards on the table and provide full insight into what has been going on. Indeed, if they have nothing to hide, that's the only logical thing to do. It would be in their best interest. Considering this, it will be interesting to see their behaviour. And it is interesting to have seen their behaviour.

Isn't this a singular forensics lab where there was poor oversight?

Secondly this is a small state surrounded by enemies, paranoid by getting attacked publicly by everybody, rather hostile to Europeans in general, and rather sure at this point that anything they say will be used to attack them.  You are naive in the extreme if you think, even if they do have nothing to hide, they are going to freely cooperate.  Why would they?  As far as they are concerned they are damned either way.

Again I find it puzzling people have such a hard time understanding the state of affairs over there.  I mean yes it would be logical for almost every other country in the world to lay everything bare but this is not every country in the world.

Oh, but I do think I understand the state of affairs over there. Are you sure that you do?

And if this is a singular forensics lab with poor oversight, is there any reason not to lay all cards on the table? It would be in their best interest to do so. The Israelis are practical, as we have seen. Is there any reason they wouldn't act in their best interest this time?

[Slargos]

Quite frankly, I don't give a shit if they harvest stem cells from foetuses cut from the wombs of arab women bred in captivity.

I simply find it delicious that it now seems that despite all the loud protestations to the contrary, there does seem to be something to this story after all.

Maybe it will unfold, maybe it won't. Maybe this is a sinister and cruel harvesting of corpses, or maybe it's just hyped up nonsense. Either way, I get to watch Malty squirm.

[Pat]

I simply find it delicious that it now seems that despite all the loud protestations to the contrary, there does seem to be something to this story after all.

And the next time Israel start up their anti-semitism machinery in response to something like this, we can safely assume they have something to hide.

[Slargos]

I simply find it delicious that it now seems that despite all the loud protestations to the contrary, there does seem to be something to this story after all.

And the next time Israel start up their anti-semitism machinery in response to something like this, we can safely assume they have something to hide.

We've always been able to safely assume the Israelis have something to hide, be it nukes, phosphor, sunk "allied" ships, reselling of technological secrets etc etc ad infinitum. 

[Faeelin]

Isn't saying, "Aha, but the organs were stolen from everyone!" missing the point?

I mean, who were the recipients of the organs?

[Valmy]

And if this is a singular forensics lab with poor oversight, is there any reason not to lay all cards on the table? It would be in their best interest to do so. The Israelis are practical, as we have seen. Is there any reason they wouldn't act in their best interest this time?

Why?  Israel has made it its policy for a long time not to defend itself from the endless allegations of evil that get tossed its way.  If it does this time wouldn't that mean it would have to continue to do so?  Or would it be taken that everytime it does not it is implied it is guilty?  I mean you already have an explanation and yet you want more just to prove Israel is not guilty of wrongdoing on a systemic level.  Is it really a good use of their time to put that much effort towards what appears to them to be a fruitless goal?

If you accuse a country of being evil constantly for 60 years after awhile they simply ignore you regardless of the validity of the situation.

I mean what practical value could explaining this in detail give them?  Most people would not believe them anyway.

[Valmy]

Isn't saying, "Aha, but the organs were stolen from everyone!" missing the point?

I mean, who were the recipients of the organs?

I assume whoever the crooked forensics lab sold them to?

[Valmy]

And the next time Israel start up their anti-semitism machinery in response to something like this, we can safely assume they have something to hide.

Oh like that wasn't the assumption already.

[Faeelin]

Isn't saying, "Aha, but the organs were stolen from everyone!" missing the point?

I mean, who were the recipients of the organs?

I assume whoever the crooked forensics lab sold them to?

Given the way Israeli healthcare works, I suspect it was not a proportionate number of Israelis and Palestinians.

[Pat]

And if this is a singular forensics lab with poor oversight, is there any reason not to lay all cards on the table? It would be in their best interest to do so. The Israelis are practical, as we have seen. Is there any reason they wouldn't act in their best interest this time?

Why?  Israel has made it its policy for a long time not to defend itself from the endless allegations of evil that get tossed its way.  If it does this time wouldn't that mean it would have to continue to do so?  Or would it be taken that everytime it does not it is implied it is guilty?  I mean you already have an explanation and yet you want more just to prove Israel is not guilty of wrongdoing on a systemic level.  Is it really a good use of their time to put that much effort towards what appears to them to be a fruitless goal?

If you accuse a country of being evil constantly for 60 years after awhile they simply ignore you regardless of the validity of the situation.

I mean what practical value could explaining this in detail give them?  Most people would not believe them anyway.

A fruitless goal? They would clear themselves of some rather heinous allegations. Maybe there's a reason why they have a policy of not even trying to defend themselves? Have you thought about that?

And you're way missing the point here. In your head this seems to all be about Israel vs. Europe (or RotW). Israel has no obligation to Europe. But doesn't Israel have an obligation of full disclosure to the families of the deceased plundered of their organs without permission, Israeli citizens and Palestinians alike?

[Valmy]

Given the way Israeli healthcare works, I suspect it was not a proportionate number of Israelis and Palestinians.

So...you are suggesting a forensics lab which was illegally harvesting organs was not distributiing said organs in a just and fair way?  What did you expect?  Robin Hood and his Merry Band of Pathologists?

[Pat]

I'd like to add, BTW, that the Aftonbladet article writes about Palestinians taken away and the corpses returned without their organs.

It is imaginable that the Palestinians were taken away and died of natural causes in Israeli jail and then plundered of their organs, with the bodies returned to their families who are left to wonder if their loved ones really did die of natural causes.

[Valmy]

A fruitless goal? They would clear themselves of some rather heinous allegations. Maybe there's a reason why they have a policy of not even trying to defend themselves? Have you thought about that?

And you're way missing the point here. In your head this seems to all be about Israel vs. Europe. Israel has no obligation to Europe. But doesn't Israel have an obligation of full disclosure to the families of the deceased plundered of their organs without permission, Israeli citizens and Palestinians alike?

Well Israel gets accused of heinous crimes all the time.  That is why they do not bother trying to defend themselves.  There is simply too much and frankly they have a bunker mentality.

I rather think this is more about Israel and its policies towards outside allegations.  Israel may indeed have certain obligations they should be doing...or have already done....or will never do...I don't know.  I simply think you have very unrealistic expectations of Israel but then that is the whole problem with the peace process in the first place.  Everybody seems to want to pretend there has not been a cold/hot war going on over there for 60 years and that the the Israelis are a wholly western logical prosperous country eager to do the international community's will.  The psychological strain on that country is immense and plus they have this mildly corrupt quasi-Russian secretive way of going about government.

I mean I think Israel is great and I like alot of Israelis but lets face it, they are not a warm fuzzy western sort of democracy.  They are an armed camp with a mentality to go along with it.

Plus they have been in the Middle East for 60 years.  That is not going to be kind to one's sanity.

[Valmy]

I'd like to add, BTW, that the Aftonbladet article writes about Palestinians taken away and the corpses returned without their organs.

It is imaginable that the Palestinians were taken away and died of natural causes in Israeli jail and then plundered of their organs, with the bodies returned to their families who are left to wonder if their loved ones really did die of natural causes.

Of course they would because the Palestinians and Israelis are enemies and will usually presume the worst of each other.

[Pat]

Yep, not going to argue with that.