Arcanum: I can't remember if it's worth 5 yuros

[The Brain]

what about playing veterinarian?

Not into hospitals.

[LaCroix]

just like playing doctor, you don't need to go to a hospital for that. all you need is a hand 

[The Brain]

just like playing doctor, you don't need to go to a hospital for that. all you need is a hand 

My hand is busy.

[LaCroix]

just like playing doctor, you don't need to go to a hospital for that. all you need is a hand 

My hand is busy.

[Galrion]

Tech could get you a lot more money, and the tesla gun, elephant gun and machine gun could all do a ton of damage, and tech armor at the end was generally a lot better than magical equivalents.  Tech was harder, but often more rewarding, and once you got to repeater rifles the difference in difficulty starts leveling out, especially if you get some good tech armor.   

Yup, I've always played tech and once you get past the initial levels it isn't too hard.

[grumbler]

Got the game out again, patched it up with the Unofficial stuff, and tried it again, just for old times' sake.

Still not the game it could have been, and not even the game it needs to be.  Like Space, 1889, it is a game that should by rights be remade, and made right.  I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.

As it is, though... probably not not worth 5 Euros.

[Syt]

Btw, now available for download on GOG for USD 6.
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/arcanum_of_steamworks_and_magick_obscura

Download comes with wallpapers, map, documentation etc. As usual, the whole thing is DRM free and should run on Vista machines.

[Caliga]

Got the game out again, patched it up with the Unofficial stuff, and tried it again, just for old times' sake.

Still not the game it could have been, and not even the game it needs to be.  Like Space, 1889, it is a game that should by rights be remade, and made right.  I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.

As it is, though... probably not not worth 5 Euros.

I agree with this post 100%.  I don't believe there was ever enough of a fanbase to see an Oblivion-style remake for this, as awesome as it could possibly turn out.

[Razgovory]

Got the game out again, patched it up with the Unofficial stuff, and tried it again, just for old times' sake.

Still not the game it could have been, and not even the game it needs to be.  Like Space, 1889, it is a game that should by rights be remade, and made right.  I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.

As it is, though... probably not not worth 5 Euros.

I agree with this post 100%.  I don't believe there was ever enough of a fanbase to see an Oblivion-style remake for this, as awesome as it could possibly turn out.

There was at least some fanbase for some people to keep fixing the game well after the company went bankrupt.  It was sad actually, the game had some interesting concepts to it.  I applaud any game that tries to be a bit original.  It's hard to be original, polished, and fun.  Fallout 3 was not original but was polished and a hell of alot of fun.  Arcanum was original, not well polished, and sometimes fun.  Dragon age isn't very original but extremely well polished and fun.  Sigh, I suppose that's the way of things.

[The Brain]

I am an original, polished and fun.

[Queequeg]

.  I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.

Aw Jesus.  Maybe if they hired all but a few of the Bethesda writers, fired all the animators and voice actors who worked on those two games, and made it PC only. 

[grumbler]

.  I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.

Aw Jesus.  Maybe if they hired all but a few of the Bethesda writers, fired all the animators and voice actors who worked on those two games, and made it PC only.

I think it would be cheaper and provide a better product if they just gave up on the NMAtard audience completely.

I am not sure they could find, let alone hire, the designer who decided that Arcanum would work better if only random characters were voice-acted.  And unless you find that person (or a person just as stupid) i don't think you could achieve the epic-fail-though-it-was-so-close-to-just-epic of the Troika games.  You would have to go with the people who made the massively successful Oblivion and Fallout 3, even knowing that the Queequegs of the world hate games that are successful enough to be known and liked by non-nerds.

PC-only isn't an option, alas, any more than making it for Windows 3.1 is an option.

[Queequeg]

I am not sure they could find, let alone hire, the designer who decided that Arcanum would work better if only random characters were voice-acted.

Morrowind and Arcanum came out at about the same time, and neither had all the dialog recorded.  The first RPG I remember doing that was KOTOR. 

And unless you find that person (or a person just as stupid) i don't think you could achieve the epic-fail-though-it-was-so-close-to-just-epic of the Troika games.

Compare Oblivion's voice acting to Vampire: The Masqurade's.  Or, even better, compare Fallout 3's to Dragon Age's, or GTA 4's.  Liam Neeson sleepwalks through the damn thing, leaving Malcolm McDowell and Ron Pearlman to try to help us forget that everyone besides them sounds like extras from The Room.

Not to mention the writing; while fitfully good, borderline awesome in one or two bits, the average character  is just not very well drawn.  Honestly, how many characters can you remember by name from Fallout 3?  How many companions did you care about?  Compare Star Paladin Cross with Alistar from Dragon Age.  Or don't, as there really isn't a comparison. 

Now, I know you are going to say that OMG IT IS DIFFERENT KIND OF RPG, but both Vampire and Arcanum had far more interesting NPCs.

You would have to go with the people who made the massively successful Oblivion and Fallout 3, even knowing that the Queequegs of the world hate games that are successful enough to be known and liked by non-nerds.

Fallout 3 is probably the least popular game I play these days, as the others are all BioWare, GTA4 or Half-Life (though Fo3 probably outsold all of Paradox and the Total War series).  Try again.

[grumbler]

Morrowind and Arcanum came out at about the same time, and neither had all the dialog recorded.  The first RPG I remember doing that was KOTOR.

Morrowind had no dialogue recorded.  In a lot of ways, that was much better than having random dialogue  recorded.  I think one of the Gothic games was the first to have all dialogue recorded.

Compare Oblivion's voice acting to Vampire: The Masqurade's.  Or, even better, compare Fallout 3's to Dragon Age's, or GTA 4's.  Liam Neeson sleepwalks through the damn thing, leaving Malcolm McDowell and Ron Pearlman to try to help us forget that everyone besides them sounds like extras from The Room.

Freeform games have more dialogue difficulties than force-you-through-the-hoops games, obviously.  I had no problems with Liam Neeson's voice acting.  Not that this is relevant to any of my points.

Not to mention the writing; while fitfully good, borderline awesome in one or two bits, the average character  is just not very well drawn.  Honestly, how many characters can you remember by name from Fallout 3?  How many companions did you care about?  Compare Star Paladin Cross with Alistar from Dragon Age.  Or don't, as there really isn't a comparison.

I didn't vcare about any companions in DA:O, so I am probably not the person to ask.  Not that this is relevant to any of my points.

Now, I know you are going to say that OMG IT IS DIFFERENT KIND OF RPG, but both Vampire and Arcanum had far more interesting NPCs.

Arcanum had a lot of great NPCs.  That is my point.  It deserves to be re-done, and the best platform for re-doing it that I can see is the Fallout 3/Oblivion one.  You haen't addressed that at all, except to say that you hate fallout 3 and Oblivion for reasons that are purely emotional (FIRE THEM ALL!!!ONEONEONE)

Fallout 3 is probably the least popular game I play these days, as the others are all BioWare, GTA4 or Half-Life (though Fo3 probably outsold all of Paradox and the Total War series).  Try again.

GTA (maybe, haven't played it), Half-life, and Bioware games could not re-do Arcanum, because Arcanum was sandbox.  Sandbox games are by definition different.  Try again.

Arcanum was a brilliant idea poorly realized.  It deserves another incarnation, and the Bethesda game platform is the only current one that seems capable of handling it.  Do you really disagree with this diagnosis?

[Queequeg]

Arcanum was a brilliant idea poorly realized.  It deserves another incarnation, and the Bethesda game platform is the only current one that seems capable of handling it.  Do you really disagree with this diagnosis?

I think Bethesda's quality has been spotty since Morrowind, possibly before.  Fitfully inspired (Fallout 3's soundtrack, a lot of the artwork, the Alaska expansion), and fitfully retarded (almost all of Oblivion, the voice acting, almost all of the writing).  I'd probably disagree; I expect far more from Fallout: New Vegas than I expect from Fallout 3, which just ended up frustrating me.  Also, I think Fallout 3's engine is pretty dated at this point; the faces look terrible.

Freeform games have more dialogue difficulties than force-you-through-the-hoops games, obviously.  I had no problems with Liam Neeson's voice acting.  Not that this is relevant to any of my points.

Mine was a quality issue of Bethesda's product.  Relevant for mine.  I think Troika and Bethesda were almost mirror-image companies, in that Troika's games were often brilliant (Arcanum's writing, voice acting, non-combat game system) but buggy and or/lagging in one or two key respects (combat, graphics), while Bethesda's are often boring (all of Oblivion) but somewhat well constructed (stable).  Between the two of them, you'd have a great studio; as is, I think BioWare's output is clearly superior to both.

I didn't vcare about any companions in DA:O, so I am probably not the person to ask.  Not that this is relevant to any of my points.

I'm concerned that Bethesda would, frankly, bastardize it.  I think they got a lot right in FO3, but the stuff they got wrong was extremely frustrating for me on a personal level.  I'd much rather see Obsidian or another ex-Black Isle group do Arcanum.

Arcanum had a lot of great NPCs.  That is my point.  It deserves to be re-done, and the best platform for re-doing it that I can see is the Fallout 3/Oblivion one.  You haen't addressed that at all, except to say that you hate fallout 3 and Oblivion for reasons that are purely emotional (FIRE THEM ALL!!!ONEONEONE)

Again; name characters in Fallout 3 or Oblivion that you liked and/or cared for, or memorable situations, or well-constructed characters.  Virgil>Star Paladin Cross.

Fallout, in 1997, had much better, more interesting, far better voiced characters, a more interesting plot, and a more interesting aesthetic* than 2008's Fallout 3.   The gameplay also allowed for far, far more non-combat solutions. I find that to be absurd, even though FO3's world had its good bits, and was obviously several times the size.

Now, I don't think FO3 or even Oblivion (there was a neat paint quest) were total misfires.  That is a strawman argument.  I just don't think they are the best out there, or that they totally measure up to Black Isle in its prime.  I'd much, much rather have Troika with Bethesda's budget than Bethesda with Troika's budget and publisher issues. 

GTA (maybe, haven't played it), Half-life, and Bioware games could not re-do Arcanum, because Arcanum was sandbox.  Sandbox games are by definition different.  Try again.

GTA4 is much more of a sandbox game than FO3, and is also just a much better game, with a lot better developed characters, plot and voice acting.  I think BioWare could do an interesting Arcanum, though they'd have to beef up their non-combat solutions to problems.

I suggest you try Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines.  Troika's last game, and probably their best all-around.  I think it is pretty clearly superior to Oblivion in most respects, even though it is ultimately flawed.  Tons of memorable characters and situations.


Though, obviously, you missed the point here; if I ever was some obscure-game loving fanatic, I stopped being one years ago.  Except for Total War/EU mods.  I'm geeky as fuck for that shit.

 
*Yes, I know FO3 is suppposed to be a sequel to FO1, but that doesn't change the fact that some things just looked silly.  Like the Super-Mutants.