WW1, the short and easy way

[Valmy]

wow American schools teach a odd version of history.

American schools didn't teach me that.  I thought it was fairly obvious.  The coming millions of men from our endless well of manpower was a decisive factor.

That does not mean the French and the British did not do the heavy lifting even right at the end.  It took us forever to get our military built up in WWI.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The USA was the clear winner of WW1.

The British Empire was close to bankruptcy, the French were so buggered that they just rolled over in 1940, the Russians had the communists, Austria-Hungary was dismantled, Italy irrelevant and Germany humiliated.

Throwing your weight into the balance towards the end of a long war served the USA very well in the first half of the 20th century.

[grumbler]

The USA was the clear winner of WW1.

The British Empire was close to bankruptcy, the French were so buggered that they just rolled over in 1940, the Russians had the communists, Austria-Hungary was dismantled, Italy irrelevant and Germany humiliated.

Throwing your weight into the balance towards the end of a long war served the USA very well in the first half of the 20th century.

Disagree.  The US lost less severely than the other nations you mention, but gained nothing from entering WW1 (save, perhaps, avoiding the spectre of a British or French bankruptcy).  The US would have been better-off staying out of the war.

[grumbler]

wow American schools teach a odd version of history.

wow, someone taught you to leap to delusions!

McLeod is Canadian.  Canadians don't attend American schools.

[Valmy]

Disagree.  The US lost less severely than the other nations you mention, but gained nothing from entering WW1 (save, perhaps, avoiding the spectre of a British or French bankruptcy).  The US would have been better-off staying out of the war.

Your opinion was certainly a popular one in the 1920s and 30s.  I think saving Britain and France was worth it myself even if the fuckers did take the opportunity to expand their stupid empires.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Which raises the question of whether the Germans could have defeated the British and French without US involvement.

I would say that they couldn't; the British army had actually become a powerful instrument by the end of 1917. So, it probably comes down to which country caves in first from sheer exhaustion......again, Germany?

[Valmy]

Which raises the question of whether the Germans could have defeated the British and French without US involvement.

I would say that they couldn't; the British army had actually become a powerful instrument by the end of 1917. So, it probably comes down to which country caves in first from sheer exhaustion......again, Germany.

Well considering the US entered the war so long before the end, April 1917, it is hard to guess as to how things might have been different.  Germany certainly would have acted differently under that calculus.

[Josquius]

wow American schools teach a odd version of history.

wow, someone taught you to leap to delusions!

McLeod is Canadian.  Canadians don't attend American schools.

Who on earth is McLeod?
I'm pretty sure the posters who replied to me were Americans.

[Ed Anger]

  The US would have been better-off staying out of the war.

Darn right. Fuck Europe.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Which raises the question of whether the Germans could have defeated the British and French without US involvement.

I would say that they couldn't; the British army had actually become a powerful instrument by the end of 1917. So, it probably comes down to which country caves in first from sheer exhaustion......again, Germany.

Well considering the US entered the war so long before the end, April 1917, it is hard to guess as to how things might have been different.  Germany certainly would have acted differently under that calculus.

I think that the orthodox view is that the Germans responded to American entry with the big offensive in spring 1918 (before the mass arrival of American troops) to try and win the war with a knockout blow. That offensive failed and there is no particular reason to believe that later offensives would have stood a better chance, the blockade was biting.

Oh well, we are entering Turtledove territory 

There is also the case that we were all losers as a result of the unsatisfactory peace treaty.

[Richard Hakluyt]

  The US would have been better-off staying out of the war.

Darn right. Fuck Europe.

I sometimes think that Britain should have taken that view as well 

[Mr.Penguin]

  The US would have been better-off staying out of the war.

Darn right. Fuck Europe.

I sometimes think that Britain should have taken that view as well 

Well, why not, their royal family was descended from a bunch of krauts...

[Admiral Yi]

If the question is who gained the most relative to their effort, the answer is obviously Japan.

If the question is which remaining power saw its relative power increase the most because all the others were fooked, that's the US.  That seems to be Tricky's calculus.  But as grumbler pointed out, the same would have been true if the US stayed out.

In terms of winners we should probably also consider those countries that gained their independence.

[Ed Anger]

  The US would have been better-off staying out of the war.

Darn right. Fuck Europe.

I sometimes think that Britain should have taken that view as well 

Certainly would have been better than expending those men on the Somme for the Frogs.

[Valmy]

I sometimes think that Britain should have taken that view as well 

I bet the Tsar felt that way on the 17th of June 1918 to.

'You know what I should have said?  Fook Serbia that's what.'