Bible not conservative enough?

[Valmy]

I am not sure what you are implying but how is pandering to the aristocracy by banning idol worship at the cost of upsetting the monks and peasants any different from decisions that any prince in the Renassaince might make.  Since when do people in power make decisions that upset their peers in order to appease the proles?  Sure there are some examples of this but they are the exceptions.  You might even argue that the US is the great exceception of the general time period.

The entire Western half of the Empire went into revolt and he lost the Empire in Italy and the Empire's enormous influence over the Papacy just by that one edict and it did not even phase him.  Why?  Because he thought he had God on his side.  If he did that to appease the Aristocracy it was the single worst Aristocracy appeasements in all of history.

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally I also mean that it was spiritually motivated by the sort of common people, not just the elite (though I think it was by the elite). 

[crazy canuck]

The entire Western half of the Empire went into revolt and he lost the Empire in Italy and the Empire's enormous influence over the Papacy just by that one edict and it did not even phase him.  Why?  Because he thought he had God on his side.  If he did that to appease the Aristocracy it was the single worst Aristocracy appeasements in all of history.

The folks in the west were not the elite of the empire....They were a bunch of largely illerate peasants.  Heck they couldnt even speak Greek.   He was pandering to the elites within his circle of influence and he paid the price.  I am not sure what your point is.

[crazy canuck]

Incidentally I also mean that it was spiritually motivated by the sort of common people, not just the elite (though I think it was by the elite).

I can agree with you there.  I was thinking about the decisions made by the elites.

[Eddie Teach]

So, who's the new guy?  And the other new guy?

Vise, Lecroix, Rasputin. They all kind of sound like OVB to me. Granted, it's still early.

[Razgovory]

So, who's the new guy?  And the other new guy?

Vise, Lecroix, Rasputin. They all kind of sound like OVB to me. Granted, it's still early.

Do they slur their typing like a drunk?

[Sheilbh]

I can agree with you there.  I was thinking about the decisions made by the elites.

Yeah I meant the sort of fervor of every spiritual/secular dispute.  I think it's impossible to deny the spiritual motivation of communities' participation in something like the Pilgrimage of Grace or the popular spiritual motivation behind the early schisms.

Now from the elite'ss perspective I don't think it's plausible to separate the spiritual from the secular through most of the history we know and it's impossible to know quite how the balance sits at any given moment.