British Freedom of Speech withered, dying

[Jacob]

Of course, you aren't really a good example of the pressure or problems. It's not like your Danish culture really clashes with Canadian mores or cultural norms anyway. You are a "good" immigrant in a very tolerant country.

Yeah, true enough.  It's my impression that it holds true for others in Canada as well, however.  I think the problems manifest more when the new immigrants are part of a first batch of their kind somewhere where the locals aren't used to them and, between 2nd generation immigrants and their parents.

But to the first point, saying we have "multiculturalism" rather than "a melting pot" (combined with recent history of immigration to the country) makes it easier to argue away or avoid some of the more common points of conflict, I think.

I've never really understood the animosity people in the US, for example, hold towards Hispanic immigrants, and I come from the Southwest. Their culture is not particularly alien or anything. There are obvious economic issues with a lot of the illegal immigration, of course, but that doesn't really explain the anger and sometimes hatred though.

Yeah I don't know.  It's pretty strange to me.

[Jacob]

One of the reasons I was wondering about Jacob's view is the one thing he does not benefit from, which a lot of other immigrants have, is an identifiable cultural community here in Vancouver.  There might be a Danish community here but I am not aware of them in any numbers.  A person coming from China or South East Asia will have a large community of support here.  So I am not so sure I would assume he did not experience pressure or problems unless you also assume there is no difference between the culture of Denmark and the culture of Canada.  It might be so but I am not going to make that assumption.

Well, there definitely wasn't an easily accessible Danish community that helped me interface with Canada.  It was just me.

I guess you could say there was some pressure to accomodate and fit in with Canadian culture for me, in that there wasn't really a choice and that there wasn't any concessions made.  It didn't really feel like that however, it was just a series of day-to-day choices and experiences.  Certainly there was no specific pressure on specific things that I recall.

To me it was (and is) pretty much a non-issue, and it has seemed to be a non-issue to everyone around me as well.  I was who I was and that I was an immigrant was just a fact and neither bad nor good.  To what degree that was a feature specific to my localities (Ottawa and Vancouver) and to what degree it's an expression of a general Canadian situation I'm not sure.

It's definitely a different experience than the one I've observed my Chinese or Japanese immigrant friends having gone through, or my Bosnian buddy (with whom I often discussed this sort of stuff) or even the new wave of Irish immigrants (there's a whole lot of Irish people in Vancouver since the crash, not sure how long they'll stay), but the fundamentals still seem to be the same - you immigrate to Canada and you only divest yourself of your baggage from "back home" at your own chosen pace, and that's cool and barring a few idiots here and there, no one gives you a hard time.

[Berkut]

Of course, you aren't really a good example of the pressure or problems. It's not like your Danish culture really clashes with Canadian mores or cultural norms anyway. You are a "good" immigrant in a very tolerant country.

One of the reasons I was wondering about Jacob's view is the one thing he does not benefit from, which a lot of other immigrants have, is an identifiable cultural community here in Vancouver.  There might be a Danish community here but I am not aware of them in any numbers.  A person coming from China or South East Asia will have a large community of support here.  So I am not so sure I would assume he did not experience pressure or problems unless you also assume there is no difference between the culture of Denmark and the culture of Canada.  It might be so but I am not going to make that assumption.

I think that can actually be a benefit though. He may not have the support group, but the lack of other Danes mans there isn't an identification of Danes as a bunch of no good immigrants coming and taking our jobs.

More of a novelty.

[Valmy]

I've never really understood the animosity people in the US, for example, hold towards Hispanic immigrants, and I come from the Southwest. Their culture is not particularly alien or anything. There are obvious economic issues with a lot of the illegal immigration, of course, but that doesn't really explain the anger and sometimes hatred though.

I think it is racism and the preception that Latinos are corrupt, lazy, Spanish is an inferior language, they love to sell druge...you know the whole song and dance.

Then there are others who simply do not like illegal immigration.

I wouldn't mind seeing them all move in here personally.  I vastly prefer them to the wacky Baptist White Texan....except Colt McCoy who gets a pass for being awesome.

[Valmy]

I think American ex-pat groups are a dangerous tempting thing to Americans moving overseas.  I mean you want to get out there and meet the people but man...those comfortable expat communities are tempting.  It really slows you down in trying to learn how to get along.

[Ed Anger]

I've never really understood the animosity people in the US, for example, hold towards Hispanic immigrants, and I come from the Southwest. Their culture is not particularly alien or anything. There are obvious economic issues with a lot of the illegal immigration, of course, but that doesn't really explain the anger and sometimes hatred though.

I think it is racism and the preception that Latinos are corrupt, lazy, Spanish is an inferior language, they love to sell druge...you know the whole song and dance.

Then there are others who simply do not like illegal immigration.

I wouldn't mind seeing them all move in here personally.  I vastly prefer them to the wacky Baptist White Texan....except Colt McCoy who gets a pass for being awesome.

I blame George Lopez and Carlos Mencia.

[Fate]

I've never really understood the animosity people in the US, for example, hold towards Hispanic immigrants, and I come from the Southwest. Their culture is not particularly alien or anything. There are obvious economic issues with a lot of the illegal immigration, of course, but that doesn't really explain the anger and sometimes hatred though.

Southpark summed it up pretty well: They took err jerbs!

[Jacob]

I think that can actually be a benefit though. He may not have the support group, but the lack of other Danes mans there isn't an identification of Danes as a bunch of no good immigrants coming and taking our jobs.

More of a novelty.

If I wanted to play that game I could easily argue that being perceived as a novelty and having my cultural background summed up as "inoffensive and irrelevant" is detrimental.  It obviously wouldn't convince you, but it could get plenty of traction elsewhere.

[Malthus]

I think that can actually be a benefit though. He may not have the support group, but the lack of other Danes mans there isn't an identification of Danes as a bunch of no good immigrants coming and taking our jobs.

More of a novelty.

If I wanted to play that game I could easily argue that being perceived as a novelty and having my cultural background summed up as "inoffensive and irrelevant" is detrimental.  It obviously wouldn't convince you, but it could get plenty of traction elsewhere.

Heh, it would be hard to argue that situation isn't a lot better than where the locals have a negative stereotype of one's ethnicity and the ethnicity in issue is visible. 

[Jacob]

Heh, it would be hard to argue that situation isn't a lot better than where the locals have a negative stereotype of one's ethnicity and the ethnicity in issue is visible.

Of course it's better than being attacked.  But it'd be hard for someone to argue that having ones identity utterly marginalized and trivialized is appropriate.

Perhaps it wouldn't work in a court of law, but it'd be good enough for academia

Of course it would depend on where and how I used it.  The few times I did bring it up was to find a solid place to stand in the face of somewhat overwrought identity-political arguments rather than to pull a dorsey.

[Malthus]

Heh, it would be hard to argue that situation isn't a lot better than where the locals have a negative stereotype of one's ethnicity and the ethnicity in issue is visible.

Of course it's better than being attacked.  But it'd be hard for someone to argue that having ones identity utterly marginalized and trivialized is appropriate.

Perhaps it wouldn't work in a court of law, but it'd be good enough for academia

Of course it would depend on where and how I used it.  The few times I did bring it up was to find a solid place to stand in the face of somewhat overwrought identity-political arguments rather than to pull a dorsey.

I'm sure if I thought hard enough about it, I could figure out a way I'm a victim, too - if required. 

[Jacob]

I'm sure if I thought hard enough about it, I could figure out a way I'm a victim, too - if required. 

Exactly

[Neil]

Spanish is an inferior language.

[PDH]

Lay off the 'just a myth' national myths are largely how national identity is created.  Myths aren't untrue, nor are they necessarily true and they're not just stories.  They're often a way for a society to explain itself to itself and are quite useful in terms of understanding how a people understand themselves.

THIS is what people don't get

[Berkut]

I think that can actually be a benefit though. He may not have the support group, but the lack of other Danes mans there isn't an identification of Danes as a bunch of no good immigrants coming and taking our jobs.

More of a novelty.

If I wanted to play that game I could easily argue that being perceived as a novelty and having my cultural background summed up as "inoffensive and irrelevant" is detrimental.  It obviously wouldn't convince you, but it could get plenty of traction elsewhere.

More importantly though, I don't think it would convince YOU.