Europa's Ocean is Oxygen Rich

[Neil]

No, you don't understand.  Finding any non-terrestrial lifeforms that is not flying in a space ship is extremely bad.  It means that life is more common.  The more common life is the chances of actual extra-stellar travel decrease.  The Galaxy is really, really big.  It's got alot of stars many of which are much older then our Sun.  How ever, you'll notice there is a lack of alien space craft bothering us on Earth.  Some factor is preventing this.  What this factor is isn't known. It could be that suitable planets are very rare.  It could be that life is very rare or even unique.  It could be that tool building species are rare.  It could be that it's impossible to reliably travel between stars.  As a species we have moved past most of the these factors.  If the factor is that space travel is very hard or impossible then we are screwed.  If the factor is that life is rare we might be in the clear.  The discovery of life in outer space would reduce the number of possible factors limiting the number of spaceships in the Universe.

I think that attempting to draw any such conclusions based on discoveries regarding life on Europa to be rather premature.  Europa is perhaps the worst possible environment for spacefaring intelligence to evolve on.

Besides, we already know that space travel is very hard.

[Josquius]

Or it could just be that civilization isn't too common (look at how long it took people to get that idea....especially industrial civilization)/

Uhm, compared to Earth's age, civilization just popped out in an instant.

Exactly.

[Grallon]

Besides, we already know that space travel is very hard.

We'd overcome such obstacles much more easily, and quickly, if this planet wasn't divided by intra-species conflicts.  All the diminishing resources of Earth could then be harnessed to lift us out of here.

This of course requires that Earth be united under one law.



G.

[Eddie Teach]

Exactly.

It was human level intelligence that was the stumbling block, civilization followed pretty quick.

[Neil]

We'd overcome such obstacles much more easily, and quickly, if this planet wasn't divided by intra-species conflicts.  All the diminishing resources of Earth could then be harnessed to lift us out of here.

And go where?  Earth is still the only safe place in the entire known universe for human life, a situation that will remain true for at least the next several centuries, and probably until the extinction of the species.

This of course requires that Earth be united under one law.

Insofar as it is possible to do this, it has been done already.

[Grallon]

And go where?  Earth is still the only safe place in the entire known universe for human life, a situation that will remain true for at least the next several centuries, and probably until the extinction of the species.

Safe place?  At the rate we're destoying it?  We need a bolt hole before it's too late and that means serious investments in space exploration.

Insofar as it is possible to do this, it has been done already.

Do not confuse the tyranny of the globalized elite with the rule of law.  Although perhaps this phase of untrameled profiteering is necessary before a global legal order is put in place.




G. 

[Eddie Teach]

Hey grallon, you looked at birth rates in developed countries lately?

[garbon]

I am civic minded.  I am concerned about the propagation of the human race.  As a gay I'm not sure you would understand that.

Considering that you are less likely to have children than myself, no I don't get that.

[Grallon]

Hey grallon, you looked at birth rates in developed countries lately?

Increasing?  Decreasing?  What is your point?




G.

[Josquius]

Exactly.

It was human level intelligence that was the stumbling block, civilization followed pretty quick.

It didn't.
Civilization has been around for...what...lets be very liberal and say 10,000 years.
Modern humans meanwhile have been around for 100,000 years at least. Depending on how strictly you define human up to 2 million years.
Just because you have a planet capable of supporting life doesn't mean life will evolve.
Just because you have life doesn't mean advanced life will evolve.
Just because you have advanced life doesn't mean intelligant life will evolve.
Just because you have intelligant life doesn't mean tool users will evolve.
Just because you have tool users doesn't mean civilization will evolve.
Just because you have civilization doesn't mean industrial civilization will evolve.
Just because you have industrial civilization doesn't mean they won't kill themselves off.

[Razgovory]

Physically modern humans have been around for a while.  Behavioral modernity is much newer and coincides with the first aspects of civilization (art, complex tools, etc.)

[Neil]

Safe place?  At the rate we're destoying it?  We need a bolt hole before it's too late and that means serious investments in space exploration.

Destroying it?  Things are happening in the environment, but none of them threaten the planet, or even the existance of life on Earth.  Even after some kind of ecological catastrophe, Earth will still be much more habitable to human life than any likely alternative.  In fact, I seriously doubt that, barring atomics, human activity has the ability to make the planet uninhabitable.

Do not confuse the tyranny of the globalized elite with the rule of law.  Although perhaps this phase of untrameled profiteering is necessary before a global legal order is put in place.

I understand what you're trying to say, although I don't think it's impossible.  Nevertheless, the web of treaties and organizations that compose the soft international law of today do unite the world under one law.  That's as far as it can go, since what people have the will to unite mankind?

[DontSayBanana]

Hey grallon, you looked at birth rates in developed countries lately?

Increasing?  Decreasing?  What is your point?

G.

Increasing; we're nearing 7 billion, IIRC.  I think the point he's making is that in terms of ecology, humans are largely parasites, and further, we're parasites that breed fast.  Fast-breeding organisms tend to starve themselves out and die off.

[Eddie Teach]

Increasing; we're nearing 7 billion, IIRC.  I think the point he's making is that in terms of ecology, humans are largely parasites, and further, we're parasites that breed fast.  Fast-breeding organisms tend to starve themselves out and die off.

Developed, not developing. In Europe it's well below the replacement rate.

My point is that we'll be able to keep using this planet for the forseeable future.

[Neil]

Birth rates aren't particularily important.  Population growth rates are.