British Court To Define Jewishness

[Malthus]

As a state-funded school, I think most would agree they shouldn't be able to ban applicants on the basis of one's parentage.

As a privately-funded school, in *practical* terms, I think most people are willing to accept (as Malthus has outlined), the simple distinction between ethnicity and religion doesn't exist in the way it does in Christianity.  The Orthodox Jewish religion is long and established with a great tradition of scholarship, and, again *practically* speaking, I think most people are essentially willing to leave them to their own devices in that regard if they're the ones paying for it.

I agree I am just wondering if that is actually legally true.  Aren't there laws about excluding based on ethnicity and religion even for private companies?  I mean we have parochial schools here and I have NEVER heard of them not admitting a student because that student was not Catholic...I mean I question if they would even be allowed to do that.

Seems to me a better solution than having a state-sponsored "faith test" would be to eliminate all requirements for any school that the persons taught be of a particular faith; after all, few persons who are not Jewish or Catholic would really want their kids to go to a specifically Catholic or Jewish school; and if they do, what's the harm?

This would avoid the absurdity of having a British court rule on who exactly is a Jew.

[Valmy]

Seems to me a better solution than having a state-sponsored "faith test" would be to eliminate all requirements for any school that the persons taught be of a particular faith; after all, few persons who are not Jewish or Catholic would really want their kids to go to a specifically Catholic or Jewish school; and if they do, what's the harm?

That is exactly how things work over here.  I mean yes I COULD send my children to Jewish schools but why would I pay all the money to do so when I am not even Jewish?

I think it should plain be illegal to exclude based on ethnicity or religion for a school.  I mean so a few non-Jewish kids may end up at your school.  Big deal.

[PDH]

That is exactly how things work over here.  I mean yes I COULD send my children to Jewish schools but why would I pay all the money to do so when I am not even Jewish?

AND your kids would turn into minions of the evil jew.

[Camerus]

Seems to me a better solution than having a state-sponsored "faith test" would be to eliminate all requirements for any school that the persons taught be of a particular faith; after all, few persons who are not Jewish or Catholic would really want their kids to go to a specifically Catholic or Jewish school; and if they do, what's the harm?

This would avoid the absurdity of having a British court rule on who exactly is a Jew.

That makes sense.  But it seems the biggest loser in this solution would be that Jewish school, since by having had that requirement in the first place, I guess it fears it would no longer be able to fulfill its religious mission properly.

[Valmy]

AND your kids would turn into minions of the evil jew.

Well aren't we all minions of the evil jew anyway?  Might as well embrace it.

[PDH]

no longer be able to fulfill its religious mission properly.

Subverting right thinking people?

[Richard Hakluyt]

A lot of the best state-funded schools in England and Wales have religious requirements though. Since religion (at least in the cases of Judaism and Christianity) is more prevalent in the middle and upper classes than the rabble it is a way of selecting for intelligence (which isn't allowed  ). So the parents and board of governors will be against getting rid of the religious requirements as that is a protector of the school's academic standing.

[Josquius]

Seems to me a better solution than having a state-sponsored "faith test" would be to eliminate all requirements for any school that the persons taught be of a particular faith; after all, few persons who are not Jewish or Catholic would really want their kids to go to a specifically Catholic or Jewish school; and if they do, what's the harm?

This would avoid the absurdity of having a British court rule on who exactly is a Jew.

Thats the way it usually works, my mam works at a catholic school but she has a bunch of non-catholic students. A lot of kids from irreligious families and even a muslim.
What the article says though is that due to a new law if a school is over subscribed then priority goes to people of that religion.
Which is fair enough to me.

Defining this kid as not Jewish is of course not good.

[Faeelin]

Thats the way it usually works, my mam works at a catholic school but she has a bunch of non-catholic students. A lot of kids from irreligious families and even a muslim.
What the article says though is that due to a new law if a school is over subscribed then priority goes to people of that religion.
Which is fair enough to me.

This doesn't make sense, to me. I doubt there are anywhere near as many, say, Muslim schools as there are Christian. So as a practical matter won't Muslims be paying the same in taxes and getting fewer choices as to where to send their kids?

[Malthus]

That is exactly how things work over here.  I mean yes I COULD send my children to Jewish schools but why would I pay all the money to do so when I am not even Jewish?

AND your kids would turn into minions of the evil jew.

You say that like it was a bad thing.

[PDH]

kids would turn into minions of the evil jew.

You say that like it was a bad thing.

I'm on to your ways, foreign infidel, poisoning our wells!

[Malthus]

Seems to me a better solution than having a state-sponsored "faith test" would be to eliminate all requirements for any school that the persons taught be of a particular faith; after all, few persons who are not Jewish or Catholic would really want their kids to go to a specifically Catholic or Jewish school; and if they do, what's the harm?

This would avoid the absurdity of having a British court rule on who exactly is a Jew.

That makes sense.  But it seems the biggest loser in this solution would be that Jewish school, since by having had that requirement in the first place, I guess it fears it would no longer be able to fulfill its religious mission properly.

How so? Presumably it will have classes on Jewish themes. If non-Jews get exposed toi that stuff on the public dime, dunno if they are losing anything.

[Malthus]

Seems to me a better solution than having a state-sponsored "faith test" would be to eliminate all requirements for any school that the persons taught be of a particular faith; after all, few persons who are not Jewish or Catholic would really want their kids to go to a specifically Catholic or Jewish school; and if they do, what's the harm?

This would avoid the absurdity of having a British court rule on who exactly is a Jew.

Thats the way it usually works, my mam works at a catholic school but she has a bunch of non-catholic students. A lot of kids from irreligious families and even a muslim.
What the article says though is that due to a new law if a school is over subscribed then priority goes to people of that religion.
Which is fair enough to me.

Defining this kid as not Jewish is of course not good.

The problem is in allowing discrimination based on something that isn't clear - namely, "religion". Judaism is a tribal identity, not a "religion" only. Seemingly, discrimination based on tribal identity isn't allowed; ergo, Christians can practice discrimination as per the law, but Jews can't (unless they change the nature of Judaism to make it more like Christianity). 

[Josquius]

This doesn't make sense, to me. I doubt there are anywhere near as many, say, Muslim schools as there are Christian. So as a practical matter won't Muslims be paying the same in taxes and getting fewer choices as to where to send their kids?

Thats their problem.
The catholic schools though they recieve state funding are linked in with the church and it is from their church community that they came to be founded and are ran. Muslim communities are perfectly free to do the same if they really want to send their kids to a religious school (which most don't).

The problem is in allowing discrimination based on something that isn't clear - namely, "religion". Judaism is a tribal identity, not a "religion" only. Seemingly, discrimination based on tribal identity isn't allowed; ergo, Christians can practice discrimination as per the law, but Jews can't (unless they change the nature of Judaism to make it more like Christianity).

Judaism is a religion too. These days its perfectly possible to convert despite having no ethnic Jewishness in you (like the boys mother). These schools are entirely legal strictly on the religious lines, not the ethnic ones.

[Malthus]

Judaism is a religion too. These days its perfectly possible to convert despite having no ethnic Jewishness in you (like the boys mother). These schools are entirely legal strictly on the religious lines, not the ethnic ones.

Yup, Judaism is a religion too, you can convert to it. But you can also be born as one. That's what makes it a "tribal' as opposed to a solely religious identity. A person born to a Jewish mom is considered "Jewish" even though they don't practice the religion at all and don't believe in Yahweh.

To say that this person isn't Jewish is to impose an outsider's view on what, exactly, the "religion" consists of. Worse follows, because in Judaism belief isn't at all important - unlike Christianity, where "faith" is a major element (to the extent that in English "faith" is synonimous with "religion") in Judaism "faith' is quite irrelevant.

This whole exercise is a futile attempt to pound the round peg of Judaism through square holes developed for Christianity.