A NATO Without Turkey?

[Queequeg]

Prurient article in TNR.  Very interesting.  More young Algerian-French women in Bikinis=

[Eddie Teach]

Yet I've been told I can't possible be a "real Ukrainian"...

You're the most Canadian person I know. 

[Iormlund]

Prurient article in TNR.  Very interesting.  More young Algerian-French women in Bikinis=

How would going back to Christianity help at all? We're confronted with a backward culture in our midst and the correct response is becoming more like them? I don't get it.

Anyway, Europe will never be Muslim. Before that happens the ethnic cleansing will start. It is easy to be tolerant when you're safe, but when a certain line is crossed even your average ball of light will turn into Slargos.

[Ideologue]

That probably reflects where Vienna gets it's Turks from Syt. I've been assured by friends and family that have visited Istanbul that the city is much more Western than expected. Maybe the Turks in Vienna come largely from some eastern hellhole.

That's what I'm getting at; I get the same feedback. The large majority of Turks coming to Germany or Austria are not from the Western parts of Turkey (which are on par with the rest of the geographical area) but from the poor/conservative East who migrate for economic reasons - many of them of course called by the respective European governments when workers were scarce.

You'll most likely notice immediately when you meet a West Turk, because they'll be much more likely to speak German, have a decent job and/or uni degree and will look down on the East Turks (who live by the bushel in my district).

I know this Turkish chick from Istanbul.  Hates the eastern part of the country, but largely because that's where Kurdish people live.

Also, she denied the Armenian genocide (it was "self-defense").  In class.  No word yet on whether the Holocaust occurred.

Obviously, my opinion of Turkey went down several points after meeting her.

Hot or not?

Not very.  Fivish, or perhaps a bit less.  I'd be able to stomach the celebration of marching Armenian families into the desert much easier with a helping of wanting to fuck her.

[Queequeg]

I've had a very well educated, Canadian-born Turkish friend of mine argue about the "genocide" definition. 

I think this comes partially from the equation with the Holocaust; Armenians killed a lot more Turks than the Jews ever did Germans.  But that said, I think the Armenian Genocide is actually a much more typical Genocide than the Holocaust; the Serbs had plenty of reasons to ethnically cleanse Bosnia, the Turks plenty of reasons to ethically cleanse the Ottoman Empire, but the Germans never had anything but paranoid fantasy behind the Holocaust.  And the Germans were a lot more competent than the Turks.

That's the argument I use these days, though equating Turks with Serbs has its....not so delicate points, so Hutus and Tutsis is smarter.

[Alatriste]

Prurient article in TNR.  Very interesting.  More young Algerian-French women in Bikinis=

How would going back to Christianity help at all? We're confronted with a backward culture in our midst and the correct response is becoming more like them? I don't get it.

Anyway, Europe will never be Muslim. Before that happens the ethnic cleansing will start. It is easy to be tolerant when you're safe, but when a certain line is crossed even your average ball of light will turn into Slargos.

Bah, the article is your average 'OMG Yurop will be preaching towards Mecca in X years' piece of the week, just slightly disguised.

But you are right, the moment Muslim immigration became a serious problem (and no, they aren't now) the backlash would be swift. And it wouldn't take anything nasty like ethnic cleansing. Just imposing immigration quotas, American style, would put a swift, and quite painless end to it.

But the real mistake in all those articles is the implicit or explicit equivalence immigrant = Muslim. Just to mention one example, in Spain at least 80% of them aren't. Actually we have received more Romanians (some 750,000) than Muslims!

[HisMajestyBOB]

Prurient article in TNR.  Very interesting.  More young Algerian-French women in Bikinis=

How would going back to Christianity help at all? We're confronted with a backward culture in our midst and the correct response is becoming more like them? I don't get it.

Anyway, Europe will never be Muslim. Before that happens the ethnic cleansing will start. It is easy to be tolerant when you're safe, but when a certain line is crossed even your average ball of light will turn into Slargos.

Bah, the article is your average 'OMG Yurop will be preaching towards Mecca in X years' piece of the week, just slightly disguised.

But you are right, the moment Muslim immigration became a serious problem (and no, they aren't now) the backlash would be swift. And it wouldn't take anything nasty like ethnic cleansing. Just imposing immigration quotas, American style, would put a swift, and quite painless end to it.

But the real mistake in all those articles is the implicit or explicit equivalence immigrant = Muslim. Just to mention one example, in Spain at least 80% of them aren't. Actually we have received more Romanians (some 750,000) than Muslims!

Which is probably worse; at least Turks and Arabs have awesome cuisine.

[Tamas]

It's a fear I've heard of amongst hispanics.

It's baseless and I have in fact heard the opposite from Latinos for decades.  They claim, quit accurately, that there is no contradiction about being a good Mexican/Dominican/Colombian and American at the same time.

Yet I've been told I can't possible be a "real Ukrainian"...

I have met some typical Ukrainians, and you couldn't be further away from them. Take this as a compliment: you will never be a real Ukrainian

[Barrister]

It's a fear I've heard of amongst hispanics.

It's baseless and I have in fact heard the opposite from Latinos for decades.  They claim, quit accurately, that there is no contradiction about being a good Mexican/Dominican/Colombian and American at the same time.

Yet I've been told I can't possible be a "real Ukrainian"...

I have met some typical Ukrainians, and you couldn't be further away from them. Take this as a compliment: you will never be a real Ukrainian

And yet I don't...

Although the fact that someone can easily be described as a Ukrainian, and not a form of Russian, is a small solace to me...

[Duque de Bragança]

Prurient article in TNR.  Very interesting.  More young Algerian-French women in Bikinis=

How would going back to Christianity help at all? We're confronted with a backward culture in our midst and the correct response is becoming more like them? I don't get it.

Anyway, Europe will never be Muslim. Before that happens the ethnic cleansing will start. It is easy to be tolerant when you're safe, but when a certain line is crossed even your average ball of light will turn into Slargos.

Bah, the article is your average 'OMG Yurop will be preaching towards Mecca in X years' piece of the week, just slightly disguised.

But you are right, the moment Muslim immigration became a serious problem (and no, they aren't now) the backlash would be swift. And it wouldn't take anything nasty like ethnic cleansing. Just imposing immigration quotas, American style, would put a swift, and quite painless end to it.

But the real mistake in all those articles is the implicit or explicit equivalence immigrant = Muslim. Just to mention one example, in Spain at least 80% of them aren't. Actually we have received more Romanians (some 750,000) than Muslims!

Which is probably worse; at least Turks and Arabs have awesome cuisine.

It's Iberia, not England, so no need to import an "awesome" cuisine given there is no local crappy cuisine to begin with 

[Alatriste]

Which is probably worse; at least Turks and Arabs have awesome cuisine.

It's Iberia, not England, so no need to import an "awesome" cuisine given there is no local crappy cuisine to begin with 

Yeah, and Arab cuisine isn't that exotic for us... our southern cuisine could almost be defined as Arab cuisine with pork (actually all Mediterranean/Latin cuisines share many things, starting with olive oil and wheat bread, but also garlic, onions, olives, cheese, lamb, lentils, rice, spices like saffron, oregano and thyme... )

[The Larch]

Which is probably worse; at least Turks and Arabs have awesome cuisine.

It's Iberia, not England, so no need to import an "awesome" cuisine given there is no local crappy cuisine to begin with 

Yeah, and Arab cuisine isn't that exotic for us... our southern cuisine could almost be defined as Arab cuisine with pork (actually all Mediterranean/Latin cuisines share many things, starting with olive oil and wheat bread, but also garlic, onions, olives, cheese, lamb, lentils, rice, spices like saffron, oregano and thyme... )

We can do with more falafel, though. And personally I believe that the "Mediterranean" element of Spanish cuisine is overstated.