Today in Canada! pogey train for the "self-employed" ?

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Socialism at work here in Beaverdale. I say Yay. great. about time, but don't expect much out of it.

Pogey ain't what it used to be. It ain't that nice  acushion, really, except that it will motivate your ass to find a job. What say you Citizen of The World (that is Languish)

Yay or Nae!

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/720351---special-ei-benefits-for-self-employed-to-begin-in-2011?bn=1

'Special' EI benefits for self-employed to begin in 2011
Comment on this story »
Iain Marlow Business Reporter
Published On Tue Nov 03 2009

The federal government has introduced legislation to extend some Employment Insurance benefits to the self-employed, human resources and skills development minister Diane Finley said Tuesday morning.

At a press conference in Toronto, Finley said the Conservatives are introducing the Fairness for the Self-Employed Act, which would extend Employment Insurance "special benefits, including maternity, parental, sickness and compassionate care benefits, to the self-employed."

That means everyone from small business owners to farmers can now access maternity leave, parental and adoptive benefits, and sickness and compassionate care benefits for the first time, though they will not get EI's regular weekly income replacement should they become unemployed.

Opting in would be voluntary, Finley said, and the government expects the program to be largely self-financing, though she was unable to give numbers or predictions based on expected demand.

Canadians could start paying premiums as early as January, at rates essentially frozen at 2009 levels. However, claims wouldn't be able to be paid out until January 2011, well into the recovery and after what many expect to be a record dip in unemployment in2010.

The act follows up on previous Conservative promises to protect the self-employed from the devastation of the current recession.

"About 2.6 million Canadians are self-employed," Finley said in a release. "The self-employed have had little or no income protection to cope with major life events, such as giving birth, caring for a newborn or newly adopted child, being sick or injured, or caring for a gravely ill family member."

The new legislation, if passed, would provide maternity benefits (up to 15 weeks), parental and adoptive benefits (up to 35 weeks), sickness benefits (up to 15 weeks), and compassionate care benefits (up to 6 weeks). These are the same benefits available to working Canadians.

"Farmers will be happy to hear this," said Richard Phillips, executive director of the Grain Growers of Canada, who was present, noting that farmers and their spouses are considered self-employed

[Admiral Yi]

Sure, why not. Don't know if an actuarially fair, self-financing system of benefits really qualifies as socialism though.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Sure, why not. Don't know if an actuarially fair, self-financing system of benefits really qualifies as socialism though.

It was a sarcastic use of the term.

[Josephus]

Sure, why not. Don't know if an actuarially fair, self-financing system of benefits really qualifies as socialism though.

I love how you justify the good things socialism has brought.

Anyways, to the point. Yeah, why not. If they opt in, they should qualify for it.

[Monoriu]

I don't understand.  Is this some sort of insurance scheme run by the government?  Say, if I join, I'll have to pay a premium.  Then, when an event comes along (e.g. we have a baby, our business is closed etc), we get some money from the scheme? 

[BuddhaRhubarb]

I don't understand.  Is this some sort of insurance scheme run by the government?  Say, if I join, I'll have to pay a premium.  Then, when an event comes along (e.g. we have a baby, our business is closed etc), we get some money from the scheme? 

ideally yes... but there's often a catch. lots of forms and whimsical bureaucrat reforms happening constantly ( ie less money every year, less chance of qualifying unless you are Newfoundese.)

[Monoriu]

My question is, if this thing is able to be self-financed and self-sustained, how come the private market doesn't come up with these policies already?  There is a good chance that the government cannot reduce the payout or raise the premiums if necessary.  Another thing is, the purpose of an insurance is to guard against unexpected events which the insured have little control over.  But this policy covers things like adopting a child and having a baby.  These events are almost entirely within the control of the insured.  What stops me from joining the scheme just before I decide to have a child and then claim the benefit? 

[Admiral Yi]

I love how you justify the good things socialism has brought.

I don't follow.

[Josephus]

My question is, if this thing is able to be self-financed and self-sustained, how come the private market doesn't come up with these policies already?  There is a good chance that the government cannot reduce the payout or raise the premiums if necessary.  Another thing is, the purpose of an insurance is to guard against unexpected events which the insured have little control over.  But this policy covers things like adopting a child and having a baby.  These events are almost entirely within the control of the insured.  What stops me from joining the scheme just before I decide to have a child and then claim the benefit?

Like with most insurances, you need to have been paying premiums for a minimum time before you can qualify.

In Canada, the minimum amount of work time, I think, is a year. So, for instance, if I get a job today, haven't worked before, and get fired tomorrow, I don't qualify.

[viper37]

My question is, if this thing is able to be self-financed and self-sustained, how come the private market doesn't come up with these policies already?  There is a good chance that the government cannot reduce the payout or raise the premiums if necessary.  Another thing is, the purpose of an insurance is to guard against unexpected events which the insured have little control over.  But this policy covers things like adopting a child and having a baby.  These events are almost entirely within the control of the insured.  What stops me from joining the scheme just before I decide to have a child and then claim the benefit?

Because the market base is too thin.
The government already cover this for workers, but it won't cover employers/self-employed people.

Having an insurance program just for these people, assuming, say 30-40% are interested in joining, there's really not enough people in this situation to justify the insurance plan.

And as the article says, you can start paying in 2010, but can't claim until 2011.

[crazy canuck]

A much needed reform.  Buddha, this has less to do with giving pogey to self employed people that become unemployed than giving sick and maternity benefits to people who are actively self employed.

To Mono, a lot of self-employed people have to pay large premiums to self insure for disability benefits to guard against sickness preventing them from working.  This will lessen that burden.

[Malthus]

A much needed reform.  Buddha, this has less to do with giving pogey to self employed people that become unemployed than giving sick and maternity benefits to people who are actively self employed.

To Mono, a lot of self-employed people have to pay large premiums to self insure for disability benefits to guard against sickness preventing them from working.  This will lessen that burden.

Yeah, story says self-employed will not be eligible for income replacement on unemployment.

Seems a reasonable plan to me. Of course it remains to be seen if it is truly "self funding".

[crazy canuck]

Seems a reasonable plan to me. Of course it remains to be seen if it is truly "self funding".

Not sure why it wouldn't be.  EI premiums have always been a huge cash cow for the government.

[Malthus]

Seems a reasonable plan to me. Of course it remains to be seen if it is truly "self funding".

Not sure why it wouldn't be.  EI premiums have always been a huge cash cow for the government.

I haven't looked into it. I suppose it would depend on the definition of "self employed" and how much they would be expected to pay in.  Plus there could be all sorts of administration problems causing expense.

[Josephus]

Seems a reasonable plan to me. Of course it remains to be seen if it is truly "self funding".

Not sure why it wouldn't be.  EI premiums have always been a huge cash cow for the government.

Espeically since they started limiting who qualifies, and how much they get.