Golden Girl leaves $300k to a homeless gay youths centre

[Faeelin]

You say you want your kind to feel like they are part of society, aren't thought of differently, etc. but then you support something like this that furthers their, ehm, 'apartness'.

Wow. Epic fail, man.

[DontSayBanana]

A lot of this thread is epic fail.  If unfair treatment of GLBT youth is so abhorrent, then why not devote more funds and energy toward mainstreaming them so that they can be comfortable in typical youth shelters; why exacerbate the situation by segregating them more?

[Martinus]

A lot of this thread is epic fail.  If unfair treatment of GLBT youth is so abhorrent, then why not devote more funds and energy toward mainstreaming them so that they can be comfortable in typical youth shelters; why exacerbate the situation by segregating them more?

I thought I have been trying to explain this for the last two pages. The only epic fail here is apparently your reading comprehension.

[Martinus]

What generalizations? I provided a couple of links discussing the topic; you have google.

My post was meant for Marty.

I am just saying the same stuff Faeelin's links say (have you bothered following them?). I also follow a number of gay rights advocacy publications, websites etc. and these topics are often discussed in them. There is a lot of testimonies floating around both from homeless gay kids and people who run these centres (many of whom had been homeless gay kids themselves).

I also don't think anything I said is so extraordinary or incredible.

[Berkut]

I actually doubt that.  A gay youth shelter is far more trendy and probably gets much more support than a shelter for more typical homeless people (i.e. smelly old drunks).

I was wondering why not have just a youth homeless shelter.  Why turn away straight kids?

Gay kids are far, far more likely to be homeless, often after coming out (or being outed) to their parents. And they often have the psychological issues that come with that.

http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org/RG-homeless.html

http://gaylife.about.com/od/headlinesnewsstories/a/glbthomeless.htm

I'm not disputing that in the slightest.

What I was questioning is whether it is a better strategy to build separate and distinct homeless shelters for distinct groups, or to make more broad-based homeless shelters.

In a more mainstream situation (like schools) I would share your view (simply because it is better to integrate than to segregate) but here we are talking about kids with significant traumatic experiences that require a special approach and that could be harmed by exposure to the "real world", with its homophobia etc.

We are not talking here about kids that got involved in juvenile crimes and ran away, or even kids from broken homes, but kids from "normal" homes, who came out (or were outed) and were kicked out by their "normal" parents and closest families for being "monsters", "perverts" and "abominations". They have different needs and different socio-psychological make-up.

How would they make sure that the kids they take were told they were "monsters" and such?

What about gay kids who are homeless for all the reasons that non-gay kids become homeless, like they just don't like their parents or something? Or they are dumbasses?

[Berkut]

I have no problem with gay homeless shelters (make sure some of that $300k goes to condoms though), but I find the idea that gay homeless kids are certainly the result of persecution to some greater extent than non-gay homeless kids a bit self serving.

[ulmont]

I find the idea that gay homeless kids are certainly the result of persecution to some greater extent than non-gay homeless kids a bit self serving.

That seems to be a logical consequence of just a few assumptions:

1) Gay kids are randomly distributed across households.
2) Persecution drives some children to homelessness across the spectrum.
3) Some households react poorly to gay children, causing additional homelessness.

In addition, while I haven't read the full study:

A recent study from the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force stated that as many as 40 percent of homeless youth identify as LGBT.

In one study, 26 percent of gay teens who came out to their parents/guardians were told they must leave home

http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/homeless_youth

[Berkut]

I am sure the LGBT community would never over-report their numbers.

And I would imagine that somewhere near 100% of homeless kids have some kind of sob story for why they are homeless, many of which would involve them being kicked out.

I don't doubt that there is more, but I would like to see some data from a group that isn't motivated to see a particular result from their "study".

[ulmont]

I am sure the LGBT community would never over-report their numbers.

Overreport or not, that gives you a solid causal chain for "more" LGBT kids being homeless than non-LGBT.

I don't doubt that there is more, but I would like to see some data from a group that isn't motivated to see a particular result from their "study".

Surveys aren't free, and I'm not sure who else would care to fund the study?

[derspiess]

You say you want your kind to feel like they are part of society, aren't thought of differently, etc. but then you support something like this that furthers their, ehm, 'apartness'.

Wow. Epic fail, man.

Sorry, I just don't get whatever subtle nuance there is that makes those two things congruent.

[Berkut]

I am sure the LGBT community would never over-report their numbers.

Overreport or not, that gives you a solid causal chain for "more" LGBT kids being homeless than non-LGBT.

Never disputed more, just disputed the idea that there were so many more that they could not possibly be handled absent special facilities for them. Marty makes it sound like there are LOTS more, or that almsot all homeless gays are victims of persecution, much more so than non-gays.

It may very well be true - but he hasn't provided any reason to think so.

I don't doubt that there is more, but I would like to see some data from a group that isn't motivated to see a particular result from their "study".

Surveys aren't free, and I'm not sure who else would care to fund the study?

I don't know, but that doesn't mean that this study is credible.

40% of homeless are LGBT? Why? that result alone is pretty suspect. It is so much higher than expected it strikes me as rather odd. Why would homeless kids have what, 8-10x the normal population of gays?

[ulmont]

Never disputed more, just disputed the idea that there were so many more that they could not possibly be handled absent special facilities for them

Your quote just said "to some greater extent":

I find the idea that gay homeless kids are certainly the result of persecution to some greater extent than non-gay homeless kids a bit self serving.

40% of homeless are LGBT? Why? that result alone is pretty suspect. It is so much higher than expected it strikes me as rather odd. Why would homeless kids have what, 8-10x the normal population of gays?

Well, the "26% got thrown out of their house" number gives a pretty clear causal link.

[Berkut]

Never disputed more, just disputed the idea that there were so many more that they could not possibly be handled absent special facilities for them

Your quote just said "to some greater extent":

I find the idea that gay homeless kids are certainly the result of persecution to some greater extent than non-gay homeless kids a bit self serving.

Sorry, I should have been more clear - I mean to some MUCH greater extent.

40% of homeless are LGBT? Why? that result alone is pretty suspect. It is so much higher than expected it strikes me as rather odd. Why would homeless kids have what, 8-10x the normal population of gays?

Well, the "26% got thrown out of their house" number gives a pretty clear causal link.

Sure, if you accept one likely bogus number to explain the other likely bogus number.

I don't buy either of them, nor do I accept the premise. Again, I could be wrong, and would like so see some unbiased source.  Did the study examine homeless gays in places like, say, Tucson Arizona?

Or did they stick to New York and San Francisco?

[ulmont]

Did the study examine homeless gays in places like, say, Tucson Arizona?

Or did they stick to New York and San Francisco?

It was not just New York and San Francisco; Decatur, Illinois and other not-so-stunning locales were mentioned as well.

There is going to be a hellish amount of uncertainty in these numbers, though.  Since the number of LGBT people is uncertain at best (cf previous threads) and the number of homeless people is uncertain at best, the number of LGBT homeless is going to square the uncertainty.

[Faeelin]

You say you want your kind to feel like they are part of society, aren't thought of differently, etc. but then you support something like this that furthers their, ehm, 'apartness'.

Wow. Epic fail, man.

Sorry, I just don't get whatever subtle nuance there is that makes those two things congruent.

"You think that gay and lesbian homeless youth might have different issues than normal homeless youth? Somehow, this makes you believe that gays and lesbians should be part of society hypocritical."

I said the initial post while drunk, but I stand by it.