Swine Flu

[viper37]

I got both the H1N1 and seasonal flu shot last night.  Never gotten a flu shot before.

The injection sight is a bit sore, but no other side effects.

It will be available on Nov. 17th here.  So I'll get it then.

[DontSayBanana]

Hate to break it to you, but the danger ages are 12-24 for this one. I believe you're right in the mix there. You're actually in the "high risk of complications" on this one.

I thought 30s-40s was the danger group because of the immune over-response?

[viper37]

I may be wrong, but doesn't the vaccine prevent you from getting sick, but it does not really do anything to your capacity to be a carrier? In face, if you got sick you would probably go home or to a hospital, whereas if you are vaccinated and continue going around while the virus gets on you, you probably would have a bigger chance of infecting someone.

What I was told by a doc, is that a vaccine, any vaccine, will eradicate the disease if around 70% of the population gets it.
So, it would seem that you can't be carrier once you get the vaccine, otherwise you would alway see a 30% of the population getting the various diseases we have vaccines for.

I think the virus needs some time to incubate before it becomes contagious, so if your body can fight it immediatly, there's almost 0 chances you'll be a carrier.

[viper37]

Hate to break it to you, but the danger ages are 12-24 for this one. I believe you're right in the mix there. You're actually in the "high risk of complications" on this one.

hmm. don't think so...

Personnes à risque:
les femmes enceintes ;
• les très jeunes enfants (moins de 2 ans) ;
• les personnes atteintes du cancer et celles
immunodéfi cientes ou immunodépressives ;
• les personnes atteintes de maladies chroniques
cardiaques ou pulmonaires ;
• les personnes atteintes de maladies du foie ;
• les personnes atteintes de diabète ;
• les personnes de 65 ans ou plus.

In english:

• pregnant women
  
• Kids aged 2 and below
  
• people with cancer or disease affecting the immune system
  
• people with heart or lung disease
  
• people with liver disease
  
• diabetics
  
• people over 65
  

Got the english version of the whole thing:
http://publications.msss.gouv.qc.ca/acrobat/f/documentation/2009/09-235-11A.pdf

[viper37]

Hate to break it to you, but the danger ages are 12-24 for this one. I believe you're right in the mix there. You're actually in the "high risk of complications" on this one.

I thought 30s-40s was the danger group because of the immune over-response?

Most healthy people are expected to survive.
However, there can be complications even with healthy people, as we have seen in Ontario where a 11yo kid and another one of 13 (hockey player), both in good health died from the H1N1.

[viper37]

The "regular" flu kills healthy people, too.

Only under extreme circumstances.
For Quebec (7 million people total), we're talking 1500 deaths per year for the 'regular' influenza, and these people are nearly all people with health problems, i.e. those who should get the vaccine every year.

[merithyn]

According to the local public health department, the greatest risk is teens and young adults, so they're limiting the vaccination to those individuals in the schools here.

The first available doses of the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine are anticipated by early to mid-October. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) has recommended that the following target groups (no ordering among groups) first receive the 2009 H1N1 vaccine when it becomes available: people ages 6 months to 24 years; pregnant women, people 25-64 years who have certain chronic medical conditions, such as heart or lung disease, diabetes, weakened immune systems, blood disorders, neurologic or neuromuscular disease, and other illnesses; parents and caregivers of children less than 6 months of age; and healthcare workers and emergency medical services personnel.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/pediatricpatients.htm

In addition, in this report you can see that the incidence of death due to pneumonia and flu hasn't changed much at all from the 1960s to now, despite the widespread use of flu vaccines since the 1990s.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/lead1900_98.pdf

The flu is one of those things that we will never eradicate. The vaccine has its uses for those most compromised and at risk, but it makes little sense for everyone to get the vaccine. The risk is minimal, and there's no chance of getting rid of it completely, unlike polio or smallpox.

[merithyn]

Only under extreme circumstances.
For Quebec (7 million people total), we're talking 1500 deaths per year for the 'regular' influenza, and these people are nearly all people with health problems, i.e. those who should get the vaccine every year.

And how many have died of H1N1? How many were "healthy"?

[crazy canuck]

The "regular" flu kills healthy people, too.

Depends on what you mean by regular.  Influenza A (which this is a strain of) is the most dangerous.  Influenza B is not as dangerous and does not kill healthy people.

What makes this one unusual is that it has a much greater impact on those who are normally considered "safe" from the danger of death due to the flu, i.e. teenagers and young adults. The same precautions apply for H1N1 as for any other: stay hydrated, stay in bed, and go to the ER if your temp spikes higher than 103F.

What makes this one unusual is that no one has any natural immunity to this unless they were borne before some date in the 50s since that is the last time a flu virius similar to this made the rounds.  The same precautions do not work with this virius because of the complete lack of immunity people will have to it.  I heard a doctor today saying it will be a complete crap shoot for each infected individual as to how their immune system respond.

Stay smart and this flu is no more dangerous to you than the seasonal flu crap.

Completly and dangerously wrong.  The teenager that died in Ontario over weekend was sent home from the clinic he was at because his fever seemed to be going down.  His father checked on him and he seemed to be OK and then he was dead 10 minutes later.  Make no mistake this influenza kills perfectly healthy people and can kill them quickly.  You need to protect your kids from this.  Not to mention yourself.

[crazy canuck]

As for the kids, they've already been directly exposed to the disease for two months. Why waste the vaccine on kids who would have gotten it already if they were going to get it at all?

I am going to be brutally honest with you.  You dont have a medical degree and you are self diagnosing what is adequate health care for your kids.  Give your head a shake.  Being exposed to the virus is not the same as having had the virus.  That point was being made clear in all our media today.  If your kids have not actually had this strain of influenza get them vaccinated!

[merithyn]

Completly and dangerously wrong.  The teenager that died in Ontario over weekend was sent home from the clinic he was at because his fever seemed to be going down.  His father checked on him and he seemed to be OK and then he was dead 10 minutes later.  Make no mistake this influenza kills perfectly healthy people and can kill them quickly.  You need to protect your kids from this.  Not to mention yourself.

Two of my four kids have probably already had it, and most likely, I did, too. Oh, did I mention that one of the kids that had it is the one with diabetes? The vaccine isn't even available until next week. In our school alone, of the 700 staff and students, roughly 75 have tested positive for H1N1.

I don't doubt for a moment that this flu is more dangerous than the typical seasonal flu, but at the same time, I don't believe that it's as dangerous as the media - and yes, the CDC - would have us believe. When I see numbers - hard statistics - that show me exactly how many "healthy" people have succumbed to this flu compared to the "regular" flu, I may change my mind. However, until then, it's all just anecdotal.

[crazy canuck]

The flu is one of those things that we will never eradicate. The vaccine has its uses for those most compromised and at risk, but it makes little sense for everyone to get the vaccine. The risk is minimal, and there's no chance of getting rid of it completely, unlike polio or smallpox.

Meri, the CDC is definitely not telling people not to get vaccinated.  They are telling people to get vaccinated.  Why do you think the CDC was working so hard to get a vaccine out as quickly as possible.

[crazy canuck]

Completly and dangerously wrong.  The teenager that died in Ontario over weekend was sent home from the clinic he was at because his fever seemed to be going down.  His father checked on him and he seemed to be OK and then he was dead 10 minutes later.  Make no mistake this influenza kills perfectly healthy people and can kill them quickly.  You need to protect your kids from this.  Not to mention yourself.

Two of my four kids have probably already had it, and most likely, I did, too. Oh, did I mention that one of the kids that had it is the one with diabetes? The vaccine isn't even available until next week. In our school alone, of the 700 staff and students, roughly 75 have tested positive for H1N1.

I don't doubt for a moment that this flu is more dangerous than the typical seasonal flu, but at the same time, I don't believe that it's as dangerous as the media - and yes, the CDC - would have us believe. When I see numbers - hard statistics - that show me exactly how many "healthy" people have succumbed to this flu compared to the "regular" flu, I may change my mind. However, until then, it's all just anecdotal.

Dont be an idiot.  You think they were exposed?  Dont be stupid.  Especially since one of your kids, the one with diabetes is in the highest risk group!

So your answer is to wait to see how many more healthy people actually die from this.

[merithyn]

I am going to be brutally honest with you.  You dont have a medical degree and you are self diagnosing what is adequate health care for your kids.  Give your head a shake.  Being exposed to the virus is not the same as having had the virus.  That point was being made clear in all our media today.  If your kids have not actually had this strain of influenza get them vaccinated!

Sorry, I wasn't clear when I said that the kids were exposed. Two have had it. I had the flu, as well, at a time when the Public Health department said that the only flu in the area was H1N1, so if you have flu-like symptoms, assume it's H1N1. The bug has been throughout the house. I'm not talking about "exposed" as in around town. I mean they've been as thoroughly exposed to it as they would be by a vaccine.

Or are you now going to argue that just because they've had it doesn't mean they don't need the vaccine?

[merithyn]

Dont be an idiot.  You think they were exposed?  Dont be stupid.  Especially since one of your kids, the one with diabetes is in the highest risk group!

So your answer is to wait to see how many more healthy people actually die from this.

How about you listen first, eh? The one with diabetes has HAD it. Is he still in the highest risk group? No, because if you've HAD the disease it's better than the vaccine. Why on earth would I get them vaccinated now?

Yes, healthy people die from this, just as they do from lots of other diseases. But until I see hard numbers, I'm simply not going to believe that just because a kid in the news died of it means that there's a significantly greater risk than the seasonal flu. As yet, no one can provide that. Believe me, I've looked.

And as for my family, it's all moot. We got it before the vaccine was even made available... two months before. *shrugs*