US General asks for more troops

[crazy canuck]

An argument could be made that NATO didn't really want to do it.  They were signing on to annihilate the Taliban and then to set up an Afghan government that was somewhat friendly towards the West, not to participate in an occupation longer than either Germany's or Japan's.

My recollection was that all NATO nations were full of rhetoric of staying till the job was done and vowing not to repeat the mistake made when the West left Afghanistan to its own devices after the Soviets were defeated.

Your argument is fine in hindsight but nobody was putting limits on their involvement until the resurgence of the Taliban.

[Admiral Yi]

The Afghans fought (and arguably won, at least in the immediate sense) our war in the 1980s with our weapons at a cost higher than any American can imagine.  Then we just pulled our dick out and let the Taliban turn what was once a vacation spot into an economically, environmentally and political hell hole where the lot of half the population is so terrible that they regularly set themselves on fire.

What's your point?  That if we had kept out dick in none of that would have happened?

[Queequeg]

What's your point?  That if we had kept out dick in none of that would have happened?

I don't think we should abandon the same country twice. 

[Razgovory]

What's your point?  That if we had kept out dick in none of that would have happened?

I don't think we should abandon the same country twice.

We abandoned Canada twice.  And now look at them.

[Queequeg]

What's your point?  That if we had kept out dick in none of that would have happened?

I don't think we should abandon the same country twice.

We abandoned Canada twice.  And now look at them.

The Brits haven't executed mothers in front of their sons since the...well...I don't even know if the Saxons would have done that. 

[Iormlund]

Berkut's real objection is to the claim that you "can't" commit enough troops to fight off a poorly funded and armed bunch of irregulars fighting in the mountains.

In fact, I would ague that you guys are disrespecting yourselves vastly more than I am - my claim is that you could, if you wished and without any serious crimp of your lifestyle, send an order of magnitude more men into harms ways. You don't not because you can't, but because you simply do not want to, and then claim that you CAN'T in order to pretend like there isn't any choice in the matter.

We could double our military budget and still we could not send more men. The fact is being a soldier in here is seen as a failure worse than flipping burgers. With the odd exception, only total losers end up serving. It has taken a lot of immigrant volunteers, a worldwide crisis and the collapse of the housing bubble (close to 20% unemployment now) to finally allow the military to meet its timid recruitment goals, which had gone unfulfilled ever since it went professional.

[Zanza]

And Germany? Please. This is a country that a half century ago put literally millions of men into uniform and sent them all over Europe and Africa. Sorry, I am guessing that they could manage to send a couple hundred thousand men if they had the will to do so. Not saying they should send that many, of course, just that they could certainly support that many.

Most Germans don't want that though. Simple as that. If that means failure in Afghanistan, I doubt many Germans will care. It's seen as an American war here anyway. That makes supporting the effort in Afghanistan a suicide mission for politicians here.

I would rather see Afghanistan succeed, if only for the poor Afghanis who deserve a better life. I don't care for the prestige of the NATO (or the West). But I am also not really willing to commit more resources. We have so many other problems that seem more important to me and I would rather we spend our resources on that.

[Zanza]

Your argument is fine in hindsight but nobody was putting limits on their involvement until the resurgence of the Taliban.

So the situation changed. Time to re-evaluate your long term strategy, no?

[citizen k]

But I am also not really willing to commit more resources. We have so many other problems that seem more important to me and I would rather we spend our resources on that.

That's how Afghanistan was lost after the Soviet pullout. 

[Neil]

I would rather see Afghanistan succeed, if only for the poor Afghanis who deserve a better life.

What makes you think that they deserve a better life?

[Neil]

But I am also not really willing to commit more resources. We have so many other problems that seem more important to me and I would rather we spend our resources on that.

That's how Afghanistan was lost after the Soviet pullout. 

What makes you think that we ever hda Afghanistan to lose?

[The Minsky Moment]

Your argument is fine in hindsight but nobody was putting limits on their involvement until the resurgence of the Taliban.

So the situation changed.

To the contrary, the problem is that the situation has not changed.  Only the fickle whims of the masses and of politicians in the West has changed.

[citizen k]

But I am also not really willing to commit more resources. We have so many other problems that seem more important to me and I would rather we spend our resources on that.

That's how Afghanistan was lost after the Soviet pullout. 

What makes you think that we ever hda Afghanistan to lose?

Not referring to Western interest, just human interest. Something an Old One like yourself wouldn't be concerned with.

[Neil]

But I am also not really willing to commit more resources. We have so many other problems that seem more important to me and I would rather we spend our resources on that.

That's how Afghanistan was lost after the Soviet pullout. 

What makes you think that we ever hda Afghanistan to lose?

Not referring to Western interest, just human interest. Something an Old One like yourself wouldn't be concerned with.

How does helping Afghanistan help the cause of humanity?

[crazy canuck]

Your argument is fine in hindsight but nobody was putting limits on their involvement until the resurgence of the Taliban.

So the situation changed. Time to re-evaluate your long term strategy, no?

When the going gets tough....

The Germans bug out and leave the fighting to others.

Great, just great.