British citizen creates national uproar in Quebec

[Valmy]

It would seem to me to be pretty self-evident that the apparant insistance of the French-speaking population of Canada that the country as a whole be bi-lingual English/French but that Quebec itself be uni-lingual French is inherently unfair and rather hypocritical.

I could be smoking crack here but somehow I think I would be more likely to find a bilingual person in Quebec than any other province so I do not get the supposed unilingualness of Quebec...

[Grey Fox]

Come here, you'll be surprised.

Outside of Montreal, no one speaks English & French.

[viper37]

'The laws have been a sucess as proven by immigration' is surely a bad argument for your side - unless by 'success' you happen to mean 'making Toronto far surpass Montreal'. 

Montreal's decline VS Toronto started before that.  It accelerated with the Quiet Revolution and French empowerement, people who objected to be forced to speak in french to the francophones of this province left.  And that was good riddance frankly. 
If people want to act as imperialists in a conquered country, they are welcome to leave at any time.

Quebec's inane language laws have done it much harm in a strictly utilitarian sense. I see this very often in interacting with my international clients - if the choice is between Quebec, Ontario or Alberta/BC to launch some new venture (and it often is), all things being equal the language laws are commonly cited as a reason not to choose Quebec.

If we had an attracting fiscality and and an über developped economy, that wouldn't be a problem. 
As it is, the language laws are a minor issue.  An issue that needs some attention, but not to the point of going back to the 50s and 60s.

[Valmy]

Come here, you'll be surprised.

Outside of Montreal, no one speaks English & French.

Well I stand corrected then.

Wow that just seems foolish to the point of lunacy to not speak English in North America.

[viper37]

It would cause an uproar, but I think it'd be right.  I mean their could be some exceptions I could see, for example some sort of Acadian community - and vice versa in Quebec.  But I think that should be the exception not the rule for other communities.

they did try it.  At some point, they merged the english schoold board with the french ones to drown them.
They tried again with the only French hospital in Ontario. No uproar from the english community.
Manitoba did it successfully for about a century.
There was no uproar from the english community.
A former Quebec citizen with past ties to the PQ was nominated as director of an Ottawa hospital (and english one).
Now, there was an uproar.

Ontario can be a nice province and it has lots of nice people, but it's in no way that bastion of light & tolerance towards other culture that Malthus wants to portray.  Traditionnaly, French citizens of all provinces had had to fight a lot to get services in their own languages.  And then once they are nearly assimilated, our anglo friends used the "sufficient number" excuse to stop funding public services.

[viper37]

Wow that just seems foolish to the point of lunacy to not speak English in North America.

and it is foolish.

35% of the population is bilingual, apparently.  But public school english classes are notoriously bad.  Nearly as bad as the french classes taught in other provinces.  Come to think of it, our French classes seems deficient too...

I remember one english teacher in my high school, in particular.  He didn't teach me, but he taught to some of my friends.  My english was better than his.  But that's another issue...
I do remember an english teacher from Vermont.  He had a lot of trouble with his spelling.  We constantly had to double check in the dictionnary to be sure.

Ah, the joys of public schools sometimes..

[Malthus]

'The laws have been a sucess as proven by immigration' is surely a bad argument for your side - unless by 'success' you happen to mean 'making Toronto far surpass Montreal'. 

Montreal's decline VS Toronto started before that.  It accelerated with the Quiet Revolution and French empowerement, people who objected to be forced to speak in french to the francophones of this province left.  And that was good riddance frankly. 
If people want to act as imperialists in a conquered country, they are welcome to leave at any time.

Not everyone who objected to the financial and social impact of the language laws was a would-be imperialist.

Imposing a whole level of added costs and niggling petty bureaucracy on doing business - such as having the police carefully measure your signs to ensure that the font on the french version was larger than the font on the English version (a requirement under Quebec law) was, IMHO, pure stupidity in an economy not otherwise doing so good, no?

If we had an attracting fiscality and and an über developped economy, that wouldn't be a problem. 
As it is, the language laws are a minor issue.  An issue that needs some attention, but not to the point of going back to the 50s and 60s.

Yeah, if the streets were lined with gold in Montreal, you bet businesses would put up with all sorts of petty harrassment to do business there.

Fact is, foreign businesses look on Quebec as being one of three key areas in Canada, and when deciding whether to use one or another, they weigh up all the factors pro and con; and the language laws are (believe it or not) a pretty big "con", since they affect nearly every aspect of business, from instructions on software to signs to internet sites to contracts to key employees educating their kids.

The choice of keeping the laws or going back to the 1950s is a good example of a false dichotomy. Allow English to be equal in size on signs, and who knows what horrors may follow!

[crazy canuck]

Come here, you'll be surprised.

Outside of Montreal, no one speaks English & French.

Lots of people in Quebec City spoke English to me.  My wife spoke perfectly good French with them but I fail miserably on that score.  I must say that everyone I met was most gracious and understanding that I was unable to speak French.

[Berkut]

Ontario can be a nice province and it has lots of nice people, but it's in no way that bastion of light & tolerance towards other culture that Malthus wants to portray.

I think he only implied that it was a bastion compared to intolerant, backwards, xenophobic places like Quebec.

If we had an attracting fiscality and and an über developped economy, that wouldn't be a problem. 

There is a chicken and egg issue here - the fact that the entire province is so nationalistic and nasty to non-French is certainly going to make it rather difficult to compete and get that uber developed economy, isn't it?

But hey, they will have their "culture", so there you go...

[crazy canuck]

Wow that just seems foolish to the point of lunacy to not speak English in North America.

But if you are living in a community where no one speaks English, all your media is in French and you have no wish to travel or do business outside your area why learn to speak English?

[Malthus]

Come here, you'll be surprised.

Outside of Montreal, no one speaks English & French.

We have owned property in Quebec in a remote area near Temiskaming. I assure you, in my 40 plus years of going there, I've had lots of encounters with Quebec people, and most of them spoke at least some English.

[Berkut]

Imposing a whole level of added costs and niggling petty bureaucracy on doing business - such as having the police carefully measure your signs to ensure that the font on the french version was larger than the font on the English version (a requirement under Quebec law)

This cannot *possibly* be true!

[Berkut]

Wow that just seems foolish to the point of lunacy to not speak English in North America.

But if you are living in a community where no one speaks English, all your media is in French and you have no wish to travel or do business outside your area why learn to speak English?

No reason at all.

If youa re happy remaining incapable of communicating with anyone outside your tiny little insular world (including people who might visit from outside), there is no reason whatsoever to learn another language.

[crazy canuck]

There is a chicken and egg issue here - the fact that the entire province is so nationalistic and nasty to non-French is certainly going to make it rather difficult to compete and get that uber developed economy, isn't it?

But hey, they will have their "culture", so there you go...

I would characterize it a bit differently.  I dont think there is a particular nastiness about it.  As I posted above, all my experiences in the Province have been very positive.  But you make a very good point about the economic isolation they create.  As I said in my response to V, there is no need to speak English so long as they stay local but growing an economy on that basis is problematic at best.

[crazy canuck]

If youa re happy remaining incapable of communicating with anyone outside your tiny little insular world (including people who might visit from outside), there is no reason whatsoever to learn another language.

Exactly the point I made in the post directly below yours.