Canadian Politics Thread

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Both Iggy and Dion are symptoms, not causes, of a more basic problem: the Libs are no longer sure about what they stand for. Trudeau's vision (love it or hate it) of a Canada centred on an equal partnership of English and French Canada under a strong federal gov't isn't as relevant to modern Canada, due to the fragmentation of English Canada; official multiculturalism isn't a replacement, since it merely recognizes that fragmentation without articulating a strong set of shared values.

Under Chretien the Liberals came to believe the moniker of "Natural Governing Party" would guarrantee them electorale success.  Over time the Liberals lost the ability to provide any good reason for voting for them other then "We arent the Conservatives".   But , despite efforts to demonize Harper, that doesn't play as well as it once did.

Yeah if the Libs plan on rebuilding and actually governing any time soon, they need an out of left field (not literally, more of a centre fielder in reality but you see what i'm saying) kind of leader, an Obama type, young dynamic, interesting. No one I can see on the horizon. Maybe they should adjust that to the 20th century natural governing party?

[Grallon]

...Trudeau's vision (love it or hate it) of a Canada centred on an equal partnership of English and French Canada under a strong federal gov't isn't as relevant to modern Canada, due to the fragmentation of English Canada; official multiculturalism isn't a replacement, since it merely recognizes that fragmentation without articulating a strong set of shared values.

I'm glad to see even a torontonian realize Trudeau's vision has failed to produce the kind of national identity it was meant to create.  Official multiculturalism is the last remnant of that and if we are to go by the latest document 'presenting' Canada to immigrants, where it is stated that canadians do not condone 'barbaric customs', I'd say a few more years of conservative rule should see the dismantling of that debilitating ideology.





G.

[Barrister]

What I realy fear is unrelieved decades of Con hegemony. That will work out just as well as unrelieved decades of Lib hegemony - that is, not great.  For that reason, I seriously hope the Libs find a voice and some guts soon.

Harper still hasn't won a single majority, and yet you're worried about "unrelieved decades of Con hegemony"?

[crazy canuck]

Harper still hasn't won a single majority, and yet you're worried about "unrelieved decades of Con hegemony"?

Yeah, I think we need to see at least one majority before people start fretting about that problem.

[Josephus]

Yeah if the Libs plan on rebuilding and actually governing any time soon, they need an out of left field (not literally, more of a centre fielder in reality but you see what i'm saying) kind of leader, an Obama type, young dynamic, interesting. No one I can see on the horizon. Maybe they should adjust that to the 20th century natural governing party?

COUGH****Justin***COUGH

[Malthus]

What I realy fear is unrelieved decades of Con hegemony. That will work out just as well as unrelieved decades of Lib hegemony - that is, not great.  For that reason, I seriously hope the Libs find a voice and some guts soon.

Harper still hasn't won a single majority, and yet you're worried about "unrelieved decades of Con hegemony"?

Yup.

The Cons have proved that you can govern just fine with a minority - as long as your opposition is fragmented, leaderless and disunited.

The problem here isn't Con strength, it's Lib weakness - a weakness that shows no sign of being resolved; nor is there any viable options to replace 'em (Greens? NDP?)

[Grallon]

COUGH****Justin***COUGH

Leaders who don't have *some* substance don't last long.  And Justin is a no talent empty shell with no charisma.  All he has is a name whose value is more nostalgic than anything else.  Coderre would do if the Liberals wanted a buffoon as leader...  And Bob Ray can't quite wash the stain of his NDP premiership away.




G.

[Barrister]

Yeah if the Libs plan on rebuilding and actually governing any time soon, they need an out of left field (not literally, more of a centre fielder in reality but you see what i'm saying) kind of leader, an Obama type, young dynamic, interesting. No one I can see on the horizon. Maybe they should adjust that to the 20th century natural governing party?

Liberal problems are not one of leadership.  Both Dion and Ignatieff are decent men.

I agree their main problem is in lacking much in the way of an identity.  Without an identity people don't vounteer, they don't donate, they don't go through hundreds of rubber chicken dinners to get elected.  You can see this problem in liberal fundraising efforts, which have been anemic for years.

Harper isn't "young, dynamic, interesting", and look how well he's done.  CHretien wasn't "young, dynamic, interesting", and he was very successful.

[crazy canuck]

COUGH****Justin***COUGH

I trust you were having an allergic reaction just saying the name.

Seriously though, I can think of no single candidate the Liberals could choose that would stand a better chance of relegating it to being an Ontario only party.   I simply cant see him getting any meaningful support in Quebec, the West or the Maritimes.  And I suspect Ontario would be hard for him as well.  Being the son of a great man just doesnt sell the way it used to.

[saskganesh]

I have big problems calling Ignatieff a "decent" man. I think he is a snake.

[Barrister]

I have big problems calling Ignatieff a "decent" man. I think he is a snake.

How so?   

[crazy canuck]

I have big problems calling Ignatieff a "decent" man. I think he is a snake.

How so?   

Politician = .....

[Malthus]

I have big problems calling Ignatieff a "decent" man. I think he is a snake.

How so?   

Purely in terms of politics, his constituents were not happy with him being "parachuted" into a safe Liberal riding.

[Neil]

Purely in terms of politics, his constituents were not happy with him being "parachuted" into a safe Liberal riding.

Understandable, but that's the way it has been ever since the ability of the central party to fundraise became more important than the local machine's ability to organize.

[saskganesh]

I have big problems calling Ignatieff a "decent" man. I think he is a snake.

How so?   

flip flops on torture, Iraq and oilsands, depending on who is listening. he has few convictions.