Utilities Take a Dim View of Solar Energy

[derspiess]

Um...I said we need to stop proping up the Fossil fuels and having them manage our energy policy for us.  If we weren't fighting massive wars and running our foreign policy to secure FF supplies and so forth then maybe natural supply and demand would do the rest.

I was really going by what you said before.  Now how do we subsidize fossil fuels?

[Barrister]

What exactly are these "huge subsidies" towards fossil fuels?

[Valmy]

I was really going by what you said before.  Now how do we subsidize fossil fuels?

I do not know exactly (though I have some basic ideas) that is what the Economist said.  But the foreign policy/military aspects are self evident.  So long as we continue to believe fossil fuels are essential as water and have our government working to keep supplies coming in and costs low...well what chance does anything else have?

The only thing I have said before is so long as we are going to be subsidizing fossil fuels we might as well subsidize their alternatives as well just to be fair.  I have always been against big subsidies for any energy beyond research money.

[Ed Anger]

Speaking of solar panels, anybody know of a website that gives a vague idea of the cost without having to give out info so that a salesman will call repeatedly and bug the living shit out of me?

just curious.

[Valmy]

What exactly are these "huge subsidies" towards fossil fuels?

From what I understand, favorable tax schemes and government money for exploration and exploitation of gas, coal, and oil sources and so forth.

Heck all around the world fossil fuels are a heavily government run monopoly.

But there is more to it than that.

[Valmy]

Speaking of solar panels, anybody know of a website that gives a vague idea of the cost without having to give out info so that a salesman will call repeatedly and bug the living shit out of me?

just curious.

Shouldn't be too hard.  All you would need to do is figure out the total energy generated on average by a single solar module and then divide it by the amount you are paying and you can see how the cost per KW-H goes down per year.  Um...let me see if I can find you something later this afternoon.

[Iormlund]

The 'alternatives will get better eventually' thing is a fine argument for research incentives.
It won't help executives put solar inefficient panels instead of a coal-powered turbine. Huge subsidies are needed for that.

So why then do the governments of the world spend billions every year proping up the fucking fossil fuels?  If they didn't then maybe the cost difference would not be so dramatic.

Precisely because there are no viable alternatives, so we find essential to secure fossil supplies. You have to understand that alternative sources are not just a tad most expensive. We're talking two, five, ten times the cost.

[Ed Anger]

Speaking of solar panels, anybody know of a website that gives a vague idea of the cost without having to give out info so that a salesman will call repeatedly and bug the living shit out of me?

just curious.

Shouldn't be too hard.  All you would need to do is figure out the total energy generated on average by a single solar module and then divide it by the amount you are paying and you can see how the cost per KW-H goes down per year.  Um...let me see if I can find you something later this afternoon.

thanks, but I was think more of the cost of panels and installation. Every frickin' website wants my personal info so they can bug me.

[Valmy]

Precisely because there are no viable alternatives, so we find essential to secure fossil supplies. You have to understand that alternative sources are not just a tad most expensive. We're talking two, five, ten times the cost.

I am well aware of the current situation.  I am simply saying the main reason the fossil fuels are two, five, ten times cheaper is BECAUSE we work so hard to secure fossil fuel supplies and keep them coming.  If we worked as hard to get other supplies they would be as cheap as well simply due to economies of scale if nothing else.

It is nonsense to claim that there is a free market in energy.  The game is stacked against the competitors of fossil fuels.

[Valmy]

thanks, but I was think more of the cost of panels and installation. Every frickin' website wants my personal info so they can bug me.

Hmmm...this is surprisingly difficult to find because the prices have fallen so much this year due to decreased demand due to the recession and increased production.

[Josquius]

Rooftop panels FTW.

If only they weren't so darn expensive.

There's one bloke near where I love though who has made a wind turbine in his garden. It looks like one of those wild west windmill thingys.

[saskganesh]

What exactly are these "huge subsidies" towards fossil fuels?

tax holidays. exploration grants. other policy tools.

of course, in Alberta they even "forget" to bill for royalties.

[Ed Anger]

thanks, but I was think more of the cost of panels and installation. Every frickin' website wants my personal info so they can bug me.

Hmmm...this is surprisingly difficult to find because the prices have fallen so much this year due to decreased demand due to the recession and increased production.

Screw it, I'm buying a Hummer. 

[DGuller]

Are you saying that the technology is indeed perfect?

I was being very very sarcastic.

Oh, ok.  I thought you really thought that the technology was perfect, and was not just fucking with you to alleviate my boredom.

[Valmy]

Hey MB use this: http://www.solar-estimate.org/index.php?page=solar-calculator

All they need is your zip code no other info needed.

You have to scroll down a bit to get the actual money involved in $ per watt.  So it looks like a 1000W system would cost $9,000.  But it will vary a bit depending on who is installing it.