Fantasy poll

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Yeah, level limits between races were just messed up.
Dwarven thieves really should have been severely limited though. They're supposed to be big beefy blunt chaps!

who plays that rule? that's the stupidest rule ever in D&D Never ever use that. an Elf who can't be a high level magic user? unpossible.

Gygax made a number of game balance decisions which could have been dealt with differently with a bit more thought.

If demi-humans have bonuses and humans do not, why play humans? One solution is to cap demi human levels. Another is just to have humans rise more rapidly.

I always figured that balanced out as demi-humans also had minuses. max.s on ability scores etc. and some people were not adventurous enough to play anything but human.

[Caliga]

Gygax made a number of game balance decisions which could have been dealt with differently with a bit more thought.

If demi-humans have bonuses and humans do not, why play humans? One solution is to cap demi human levels. Another is just to have humans rise more rapidly.

Perhaps he didn't think that people would power game to the extent that they do.  Maybe he figured people would want to play humans because that's the role they wanted to play, not because they get LOL PLUS TWO TO DEXTURETY!!!

[Valmy]

I was playing in 1980 and I never played by that "rule"... never played in a game (that went on long enough) where there wasn't a high level elf wizard.

Um did you own the players handbooks?  Because it is not listed as an optional rule and it is all right there.

[Valmy]

Gygax made a number of game balance decisions which could have been dealt with differently with a bit more thought.

If demi-humans have bonuses and humans do not, why play humans? One solution is to cap demi human levels. Another is just to have humans rise more rapidly.

Yeah because having to stop at 8th level is totally balanced by having a 1 in 6 chance to detect sloping passages.

My favorite bizarre part was how every race could level unlimitedly as a thief for some reason.  Yes a Dwarf had far more potential as a stealthy thief while they were very limited at being burly fighters.

[Ed Anger]

I'm a Paladin with 18 charisma and 97 hit points. I can use my helm of disintegration and do one D4 damage as my half-elf mage wields his plus-five holy avenger.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

I was playing in 1980 and I never played by that "rule"... never played in a game (that went on long enough) where there wasn't a high level elf wizard.

Um did you own the players handbooks?  Because it is not listed as an optional rule and it is all right there.

all rules are optional. :p

I played in many games where that particular rule was ignored. never heard any complaints, gameplay was smooth.

[Valmy]

all rules are optional. :p

I played in many games where that particular rule was ignored. never heard any complaints, gameplay was smooth.

If you knew about the rule why are you acting all confused about them?

Of course nobody would complain, the rule was stupid and unbalanced.  I mentioned 3rd edition because you mentioned favored classes which are a 3rd edition concept.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

all rules are optional. :p

I played in many games where that particular rule was ignored. never heard any complaints, gameplay was smooth.

If you knew about the rule why are you acting all confused about them?

Of course nobody would complain, the rule was stupid and unbalanced.  I mentioned 3rd edition because you mentioned favored classes which are a 3rd edition concept.

Confused? uh no. not at all.

but ..... it was over 20 years ago and until this thread I forgot there ever were such silly non-playable "rules".

well yeah (i thought you guys were talking 3rd ed. +) I wouldn't assume that most of you were old enough to play the same edition as me, starting out.

[ulmont]

I was playing in 1980 and I never played by that "rule"... never played in a game (that went on long enough) where there wasn't a high level elf wizard.

Um did you own the players handbooks?  Because it is not listed as an optional rule and it is all right there.

all rules are optional. :p

I played in many games where that particular rule was ignored. never heard any complaints, gameplay was smooth.

In exchange for lifting that rule, we always allowed humans to multiclass as desired.

[Valmy]

In exchange for lifting that rule, we always allowed humans to multiclass as desired.

Yeah that was another pet peeve of mine.  Dual classing way way better than multi-classing.  Humans were so ridiculously overpowered simply for not having infravision.

[Josquius]

who plays that rule? that's the stupidest rule ever in D&D Never ever use that. an Elf who can't be a high level magic user? unpossible.

TSR ignored their own rules all the time for their NPCs.  That probably should have clued them in and had them drop the level limits.

Computer games.
I've never been able to play pen and paper too much, just online a bit, and it never got so far as that rule raising its head.

Yeah that was another pet peeve of mine.  Dual classing way way better than multi-classing.  Humans were so ridiculously overpowered simply for not having infravision.

How is dual classing better?
I've always assumed multi.

[Barrister]

Confused? uh no. not at all.

but ..... it was over 20 years ago and until this thread I forgot there ever were such silly non-playable "rules".

well yeah (i thought you guys were talking 3rd ed. +) I wouldn't assume that most of you were old enough to play the same edition as me, starting out.

Heh.  I don't think I've actually played a game of D&D since the 1st Edition era (and actually then it was the Red Book / Blue Book Basic D&D).  I haven't owned a copy of the rules since 2nd Edition.

[Valmy]

How is dual classing better?
I've always assumed multi.

Dual is far better.  You do not have to split you experience points between the classes and thanks to how experience ramps you can collect levels far faster.

Powergamers always dual class and hardly ever multi-class.

[saskganesh]

depends on the class and when you doubleswitch

a 9th level fighter doubleclassed to MU: pretty tough mage.
a 9th level MU doubleclassed to fighter: wimpy fighter, power capped mage.

in original AD&D you still have to suffer through being gimped in your powers until your second class was higher level than your first one (and only one switch allowed). multiclass had no such restrictions, and you grew in power in all classes, not just your current one.

[saskganesh]

youtube has a number of official 4th edition D&D cartoons that make fun of the whole gnome thing. the gnome is in three of them. pretty good. start the with tiefling and gnome interview: "I'm a monster! rrrrwl" , then the demogorgan interview, then finally the mindflayer job interview.