Canadian Woman Allowed To Return Thanks To DNA Test

[saskganesh]

Thanks Josephus.  How do we know the child's mother is a Canadian citizen?

She then went to the Canadian high commission in an effort to prove her identity. She showed them her Ontario driver's licence, her health card, social insurance card and a Canadian citizenship certificate.

Mohamud also had other pieces that would seemingly prove her identity, such as her credit card, bank cards and a letter from her Toronto employer.[/i]

plus testimonials from her employer, people in T.O. as an immigrant, there's a file on  her already. she has a history here.

and the DNA test

[Josephus]

Thanks Josephus.  How do we know the child's mother is a Canadian citizen?

I don't think that was in doubt, Yi. That's documented. They just needed to prove that the woman languishing in a Kenyan jail was who she said she was, the boy's mother.

[jimmy olsen]

Should this say the west? 

Um...if he said west that would not be much of a statement then wouldn't it?  Any logical person would deman proof if somebody claimed something obviously false.  He is saying he will demand proof even when something seems to be self-evidently true.

Sounds like a huge waste of time. I'd rather focus on things that are questionable rather than those that are self-evidently true or self-evidently false.

[Jacob]

Sounds like a huge waste of time. I'd rather focus on things that are questionable rather than those that are self-evidently true or self-evidently false.

Your faith in your ability to determine what is self-evident and what is not is... inflated.

[Neil]

This wouldn't have happened if she was white.

I bet bad things sometimes happen to white people to.

absolutely. Canada is equal opportunity when it comes to abandoning our citizens overseas.

William Sampson was a small time bootlegger in Ridyah, but was detained and tortured because of fabricated terrorism connections. the Canadian government trusted the word of the Saudis and Sampson rotted for two and a half years in an Arabian jail.

And he deserved it.

no way in hell. deported for haram behaviour maybe, but not taking the rap for al-queda activities and then later swapped for 5 gitmo terrorists.

Don't break the law in the Third World.

[jimmy olsen]

Sounds like a huge waste of time. I'd rather focus on things that are questionable rather than those that are self-evidently true or self-evidently false.

Your faith in your ability to determine what is self-evident and what is not is... inflated.

The sun rises in the east seems like a textbook example of self evident.

[Berkut]

I don't understand all the fuss.

There was some doubt about her identity, she provided the necessary documentation/blood work to prove she was who she claimed to be, and now they are letting her back in.

Where it the problem?

[Barrister]

Well, it depends really... if she shopped it up her chain of command and the inaction lies with someone else then that's fine.  But someone, somewhere in the chain made a bad call and there should be repercussions for that.  If that means the minister responsible has to resign, that's perfectly fine.  If instead some deputy minister decided to deprioritise it, then he or she can take the bullet or if the "lowly bureaucrat" somehow did fuck up then he or she should pay the price.  Someone fucked up and someone has to take responsibility for it, one way or another.

That said, I do find it pretty amusing to hear "hy ruin someone's entire life because of a single mistake" coming from you, given your usual attitude about mistakes and punishment

What is my "usual attitude about mistakes and punishment"?  I would think my attitude it that deliberate choices deserve strong consequences, honest mistakes deserve consequences, but often less strong.   

I have no problem with the person who "fucked up" having to "pay the price", but my question is why does the price have to be firing?  There's a myriad of other consequences that can be suffered in the public service - a reprimand, a negative review (which impacts future promotions), a demotion, a suspension  - all which aren't firing.

Remember if you lose your job you can always apply to any of a number of different games companies.  A public servant doesn't have that luxury of choice.

[Barrister]

Should this say the west? 

Um...if he said west that would not be much of a statement then wouldn't it?  Any logical person would deman proof if somebody claimed something obviously false.  He is saying he will demand proof even when something seems to be self-evidently true.

Sounds like a huge waste of time. I'd rather focus on things that are questionable rather than those that are self-evidently true or self-evidently false.

I'm sorry, but

Clearly the "sun rises in the west" line was hyperbole, and I'm not going to demand proof of that which is "self-evidently true".

But very few things in life are self-evidently true.  The much more likely example is a person accused of a crime gives information that could possibly, or even plausibly, be true.  I will disregard that information without external verification.

e.g. An accused says he needs to be given bail so he can attend his job, and gives the name of the employer and his hours.  Get the employer on the phone, or get me a paystub or other such proof, because otherwise I'm not going to believe you.

[merithyn]

Sorry if this has been brought up already, but I'm coming into it late.

These kinds of situations are a minefield for the government though.  Canadian citizens frequently get into legal trouble in foreign countries.  And most of the time it is well deserved.  It's very difficult for Canadian consular officials to be able to validate someone's claim of opression in a foreign country when they have zero resources on the ground.

This isn't what happened, is it? She was who she claimed to be. She held all the appropriate paperwork, and then some, and still was abandoned by her government.

I understand all the other problems, but this woman didn't do anything to warrant the way this was handled. Kenyan bureaucrats made a mistake in her identity, and Canadian officials waved it on without looking into it at all. (I know they claim to have looked into it, but a single phone call to dirrectory assistance would have at least shown that they needed to consider that she was telling the truth.)

This particular situation is appalling, and indefensible, so far as I'm concerned. Thirty minutes of the consular's time would have save this woman and her family 12 weeks of hell.

[Barrister]

Thirty minutes of the consular's time would have save this woman and her family 12 weeks of hell.

Please tell me how this could have been solved in 30 minutes (or else your pizza is free!).

[merithyn]

Put yourself in the place of the DFAIT civil servant though.

You have someone in Kenya who is claiming to be a Canadian citizen.  You have reports that Kenyan officials think she is using someone else's passport.  Are they just supposed to believe this claim right off the bat?

Now yes you can say that more should have been done.  But it's a tough situation, like I said.

Do you not believe in innocent until proven guilty in Canada? 

[merithyn]

Please tell me how this could have been solved in 30 minutes (or else your pizza is free!).

I didn't say solved. I said mitigated. Within 30 minutes, a call could have been made to Canadian directory assistance, to her place of employment, and to her home in Canada. While these calls would not have proven she is who she claimed to be, it would have given that consular enough information to continue to look into this, rather than just assuming that all of the information she provided (receipts from her local dry cleaners, included) was trumped up.

Within 30 minutes, he or she could have asked for a picture of the woman to be faxed to Kenya from her place of employment, or somewhere else for that matter. (Every job I've worked at for the last eight years have taken my picture for identity purposes, so chances are her employer had one.)

Enough information to keep the woman out of jail, and to expedite getting her back home. Maybe not conclusive proof, but certainly enough to determine if she warranted that additional step.

[Jacob]

Please tell me how this could have been solved in 30 minutes (or else your pizza is free!).

"You say you have a job in Canada?  Well then, let's call your employer and have them confirm who you are.  When that's done, we'll call your alleged son and see if he recognizes you."

"Oh... they say you are who you are, maybe we shouldn't hand you over to Kenyan authorities and ask them to prosecute you."

That wouldn't take too long.

[Jacob]

I'm sorry, but

Clearly the "sun rises in the west" line was hyperbole, and I'm not going to demand proof of that which is "self-evidently true".

But very few things in life are self-evidently true.  The much more likely example is a person accused of a crime gives information that could possibly, or even plausibly, be true.  I will disregard that information without external verification.

e.g. An accused says he needs to be given bail so he can attend his job, and gives the name of the employer and his hours.  Get the employer on the phone, or get me a paystub or other such proof, because otherwise I'm not going to believe you.

Yeah, I'm with BB here.  Tim's being a retard and entirely missing the point.