Can natural selection select for genes based on their utility at a group level?

Started by Martinus, August 11, 2009, 10:39:43 AM

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Valmy

Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2009, 12:40:59 PM
So now you aren't talking just about sexuality, but about human behavior in general?

Yep, my sister has pretty much had the exact same personality since birth.

QuoteDo you really want to paint with a broad brush and say that human behavior is largely driven by genetic factors?

It is not just genetic factors but yeah something like that.

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Neil

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 12, 2009, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2009, 12:37:01 PM
It further factionalizes society, as well as increasing individualism.
I hate individualism :(
Understandable.  Individualism has gone so far that it has become unpleasant.  The question is how do we roll back individualism without rolling back the aspects of liberalism that have strengthened us.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Josquius

Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2009, 05:22:56 PM
Does homosexuality work like that?
Its how it worked for my cousin.
Except he used protection of course.
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garbon

Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2009, 12:47:12 PM
Yep, my sister has pretty much had the exact same personality since birth.

Yay, one data point? :unsure:

Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2009, 12:47:12 PMIt is not just genetic factors but yeah something like that.

We can all believe different things. :)
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2009, 01:54:20 PM
Yay, one data point? :unsure:

I was using an example not doing a statistical analysis. ;)

QuoteWe can all believe different things.

Indeed...but I am right.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Queequeg

Quote
I know this is the stereotype everyone refers to, but I have absolutely no interest in having a relationship with an adolescent boy. I think most in our society feel the same way. However, there are societies where that has not been the case in the past, and presumably we share the same genetic makeup. Similarly, ideas about beauty have also changed quite a bit over the years.
I think this is the main reason the Dumb Right rails against homosexuality so much while ignoring fornication and adultery, stuff that from a biblical perspective is almost as bad or worse in the case of adultery. 

Cillian Murphy having an extremely hot three hour long sexual marathon with Gong Li while her husband is away doing business in Oman?  Hot.

Cilian Murphy having an extremely hot three hour long sexual marathon with Gong Li's husband?  Not so hot.  The action the vast majority of the populace has little or no predilection for under normal circumstances (that being gay sex) and view as repulsive is far easier to demonize and far more productive politically. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2009, 01:55:28 PM
I was using an example not doing a statistical analysis. ;)

My sister has a very different personality from when she was a child. ;)

Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2009, 01:55:28 PM
Indeed...but I am right.
You should submit an academic paper about your sister.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Queequeg on August 12, 2009, 01:57:37 PM
I think this is the main reason the Dumb Right rails against homosexuality so much while ignoring fornication and adultery, stuff that from a biblical perspective is almost as bad or worse in the case of adultery. 

You think they ignore adultery? It's killed a fair number of GOP careers over the past few years.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

garbon

Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2009, 12:44:43 PM
Of course you do.  You self-identify as gay.

I don't like I'm in a faction because I self-identify as gay? :huh:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2009, 02:01:50 PM
You should submit an academic paper about your sister.

Nah I hate academia.

QuoteMy sister has a very different personality from when she was a child.

I cannot confirm or deny this anomaly -_-

I also think perhaps I expressed this a bit too dogmatically obviously there are differences between who she is as an adult than who she was as an infant but she is still the same person fundamentally.  I find it pretty remarkable actually.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Queequeg

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 12, 2009, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2009, 12:37:01 PM
It further factionalizes society, as well as increasing individualism.
I hate individualism :(
Why is it that gay intellectuals like Foucault or yourself (or, for that matter, pseudointellectuals like Grallon) enjoy railing against the thing that has brought them unprecedented acceptance and affluence? 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Valmy

Quote from: Queequeg on August 12, 2009, 02:04:46 PM
Why is it that gay intellectuals like Foucault or yourself (or, for that matter, pseudointellectuals like Grallon) enjoy railing against the thing that has brought them unprecedented acceptance and affluence? 

Self loathing.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Sheilbh

Quote from: Queequeg on August 12, 2009, 02:04:46 PM
Why is it that gay intellectuals like Foucault or yourself (or, for that matter, pseudointellectuals like Grallon) enjoy railing against the thing that has brought them unprecedented acceptance and affluence?
We were all exposed to Catholicism at an early age? :mellow:

QuoteUnderstandable.  Individualism has gone so far that it has become unpleasant.  The question is how do we roll back individualism without rolling back the aspects of liberalism that have strengthened us.
I agree...

This is odd.
Let's bomb Russia!

derspiess

Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2009, 11:47:17 AM
I suppose I could choose to have sex with women, but it probably wouldn't be much fun for any involved, what with me not being attracted to them and all.

O RLY?

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.