a funny story I saw online. (concerning Bush & his pal Chirac! )

[BuddhaRhubarb]

I thought some Languishers/ans/ites/ians/kateers might enjoy each other over this?

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=haught_29_5

A French Revelation, or The Burning Bush
JAMES A. HAUGHT

Incredibly, President George W. Bush told French President Jacques Chirac in early 2003 that Iraq must be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible's satanic agents of the Apocalypse.

Honest. This isn't a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.

Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their "common faith" (Christianity) and told him: "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East.... The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled.... This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins."

This bizarre episode occurred while the White House was assembling its "coalition of the willing" to unleash the Iraq invasion. Chirac says he was boggled by Bush's call and "wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs."

After the 2003 call, the puzzled French leader didn't comply with Bush's request. Instead, his staff asked Thomas Romer, a theologian at the University of Lausanne, to analyze the weird appeal. Dr. Romer explained that the Old Testament book of Ezekiel contains two chapters (38 and 39) in which God rages against Gog and Magog, sinister and mysterious forces menacing Israel. Jehovah vows to smite them savagely, to "turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws," and slaughter them ruthlessly. In the New Testament, the mystical book of Revelation envisions Gog and Magog gathering nations for battle, "and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

In 2007, Dr. Romer recounted Bush's strange behavior in Lausanne University's review, Allez Savoir. A French-language Swiss newspaper, Le Matin Dimanche, printed a sarcastic account titled: "When President George W. Bush Saw the Prophesies of the Bible Coming to Pass." France's La Liberte likewise spoofed it under the headline "A Small Scoop on Bush, Chirac, God, Gog and Magog." But other news media missed the amazing report.

Subsequently, ex-President Chirac confirmed the nutty event in a long interview with French journalist Jean-Claude Maurice, who tells the tale in his new book, Si Vous le Répétez, Je Démentirai (If You Repeat it, I Will Deny), released in March by the publisher Plon.

Oddly, mainstream media are ignoring this alarming revelation that Bush may have been half-cracked when he started his Iraq war. My own paper, The Charleston Gazette in West Virginia, is the only U.S. newspaper to report it so far. Canada's Toronto Star recounted the story, calling it a "stranger-than-fiction disclosure ... which suggests that apocalyptic fervor may have held sway within the walls of the White House." Fortunately, online commentary sites are spreading the news, filling the press void.

The French revelation jibes with other known aspects of Bush's renowned evangelical certitude. For example, a few months after his phone call to Chirac, Bush attended a 2003 summit in Egypt. The Palestinian foreign minister later said the American president told him he was "on a mission from God" to defeat Iraq. At that time, the White House called this claim "absurd."

Recently, GQ magazine revealed that former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld attached warlike Bible verses and Iraq battle photos to war reports he hand-delivered to Bush. One declared: "Put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground."

It's awkward to say openly, but now-departed President Bush is a religious crackpot, an ex-drunk of small intellect who "got saved." He never should have been entrusted with the power to start wars.

For six years, Americans really haven't known why he launched the unnecessary Iraq attack. Official pretexts turned out to be baseless. Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction after all, and wasn't in league with terrorists, as the White House alleged. Collapse of his asserted reasons led to speculation about hidden motives: Was the invasion loosed to gain control of Iraq's oil—or to protect Israel—or to complete Bush's father's vendetta against the late dictator Saddam Hussein? Nobody ever found an answer.

Now, added to the other suspicions, comes the goofy possibility that abstruse, supernatural, idiotic, laughable Bible prophecies were a factor. This casts an ominous pall over the needless war that has killed more than four thousand young Americans and cost U.S. taxpayers perhaps $1 trillion.

James A. Haught is the editor of the Charleston Gazette (West Virginia) and a Free Inquiry senior editor.

I'm sure some of you would find the source uncredible. whatev. Chirac's the one dishing, is there going to be an Ex- President's Big Brother?

That would be awesome. and it's started already

[Valmy]

Wow the only people I hear babbling about Gog and Magog are nutty Orthodox Jews...

I find it had to believe a Methodist would indulge in such bizarre nonsense.

[DontSayBanana]

Wow the only people I hear babbling about Gog and Magog are nutty Orthodox Jews...

I find it had to believe a Methodist would indulge in such bizarre nonsense.

The last time I heard mention of Gog and Magog, it was in a Justice Society of America comic.

On a semi-serious note, I've heard it mentioned that speculation on the state of the PotUS' health is verbot, as a matter of national security, so it stands to reason that if there were a problem with a Pres' mental health, we'd never hear about it until well after he was out of office...

[BuddhaRhubarb]

well crazy ex-Presidents are kind of a natural phenom aren't they?

[Admiral Yi]

Smells like bullshit, looks like bullshit.

[Sheilbh]

Smells like bullshit, looks like bullshit.

I agree, though if you'd told me about the Rummy briefings with Biblical quotes on the frontpage I would have thought that was nonsense too.  I understand why Romer and the author are saying it, it'll be good for book sales.  But what reason has Chirac to confirm it?

[Admiral Yi]

I agree, though if you'd told me about the Rummy briefings with Biblical quotes on the frontpage I would have thought that was nonsense too.  I understand why Romer and the author are saying it, it'll be good for book sales.  But what reason has Chirac to confirm it?

At this point we're working off secularhumanism.org's characterization of a Swiss newspaper's characterization of a French theology professor's characterization of a conversation between Chirac and Bush.

[Sheilbh]

At this point we're working off secularhumanism.org's characterization of a Swiss newspaper's characterization of a French theology professor's characterization of a conversation between Chirac and Bush.

And secularhumanism.org's characterisation of a 'lengthy interview' with Chirac in a recently released French book.

But I agree it strikes me as weird.  I can't find any translation of the section of the book, the only Chirac quotation I can find about superficial and fanatical belief.  But here's the relevant extract from the book's serialisation:
http://livres.lexpress.fr/premierespages.asp/idC=14730/idR=6/idG=8?XTOR=EPR-342

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Y'know Bush may very well not have meant it literally also... there is that possibility that he thought couching his ideas in Biblical analogy, a comfort zone of his own, and was not trying to convince Chirac that there was an actual Reckoning(tm) coming... he maybe even thought to use hyperbole....

maybe....

[Valmy]

In the New Testament, the mystical book of Revelation envisions Gog and Magog gathering nations for battle, "and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

No kidding?

I hate reading revelations, it is the most fucked up most out there shit in the whole Bible I can't believe the church fathers put that crap in the there.  But I have read it a couple times and don't remember Gog and Magog...

oh shit there it is in chapter 20.  Oh well it is obvious because they copied that part out of Ezekiel to begin with.

Well ok knowing that I suppose it is possible a Methodist might go there.

Still is pretty crazy though.

[garbon]

Revelations is lovely but on can't quite beat Song of Songs.

[DGuller]

How reliable is the source?

[jimmy olsen]

Wow the only people I hear babbling about Gog and Magog are nutty Orthodox Jews...

I find it had to believe a Methodist would indulge in such bizarre nonsense.

You obviously haven't been to the right corners of the internet.

[garbon]

How reliable is the source?

As the Word of God, I'd say the Bible is pretty fucking reliable.

[Sheilbh]

I hate reading revelations, it is the most fucked up most out there shit in the whole Bible I can't believe the church fathers put that crap in the there.  But I have read it a couple times and don't remember Gog and Magog...

A number of Church Fathers had issues with it and many seemed to view it as of secondary value within the New Testament.  I believe that Erasmus, Luther and Calvin all had doubts about it and generally didn't place much emphasis on it because it was so out of kilter with the rest of the New Testament.