Movie: Hardkor 44 - Warsaw uprising meets "300"

[Bluebook]

I just gave you a link to a newspaper report on a book on that exact subject. What more do you want?

There's nothing about a "vast majority" there 

His conclusions are harsh: "A very brutal anti-semitism was widespread in Poland," he told his audience.

[Valmy]

I have never claimed the poles were the worst collaborators.

Ok then why the fuck did you jump in and start arguing with me when that was my entire point?  Just to be a general asshole?  Not that that would be out of place around here or anything...

To argue that these polish citizens were in fact not poles at all, because of their ethnicity is wrong, because nationality is not determined on ethnicity.

Ok how fucking dense can you be?  Are you implying that during the 1921 war between Greece and Turkey there was no difference in affiliation between all Turkish citizens regardless of whether they were ethnically Greek or not?  I guess some Turkish cities were just filled with traitors who self-loathed their Turkish homeland. 

Oh and there was no nationality problem in the Austro-Hungarian Empire because they all had Austro-Hungarian citizenship!!!!111 OMG!  One wonders why the 1867 compromise was necessary in the first place.

Seriously lay off the crack pipe.  This has to be the singularly most idiotic thing I have ever seen argued on the internet.  There is no ethnicity in Eastern Europe only government defined citizenship?  Hilarious.

[Valmy]

Vast majority?  Any source to back that?

It seems simply hating the Jews and being glad to see them go is all you need to collaborate with the Holocaust.   I would like to see Poles, you know, sign up to work in Death camps or something like the Balts tended to do and not just being glad to swoop in and take the Jews shit once they were gone...but anyway.

Also, who the fuck are you anyway?

A guy who thinks people's identity was entirely defined by what government gave them citizenship.  In Eastern Europe.  In the 20th Century.

Therefore we can assume he is: a complete moron.

[Admiral Yi]

Ok how fucking dense can you be?  Are you implying that during the 1921 war between Greece and Turkey there was no difference in affiliation between all Turkish citizens regardless of whether they were ethnically Greek or not?  I guess some Turkish cities were just filled with traitors who self-loathed their Turkish homeland. 

Oh and there was no nationality problem in the Austro-Hungarian Empire because they all had Austro-Hungarian citizenship!!!!111 OMG!  One wonders why the 1867 compromise was necessary in the first place.

Seriously lay off the crack pipe.  This has to be the singularly most idiotic thing I have ever seen argued on the internet.  There is no ethnicity in Eastern Europe only government defined citizenship?  Hilarious.

It seems to me that in neither Austria-Hungary and Turkey were ethnic classification as blurry and transferrable as they were in occupied Poland.

Large numbers of Polish citizens opted for German status and collaborated with the Reich.  To say in retrospect that they were not true Poles and that true Poles did not collaborate is a True Scotsman argument.

I see no evidence of large scale Polish participation in the Holocaust.  But that raises two issues: Poland was administered directly by the Reich and Polish Jews were pretty passive in first relocating to the ghettos and then to the extirmination camps.  So it's a hypothetical; IF Poland had been self-governing and IF the Jews had resisted relocation would the Poles have rounded them up as the Vichy French did?

[The Brain]

The fact that the Poles thought that there were way too many Jews in Poland in 1946 kinda says it all.

[The Minsky Moment]

The tasteless angle is what they'll see.

And they'd be right.

In such a world, the city of Warsaw swarms with war machines and robots and it becomes an even more ominous and infernal place than it really was 65 years ago.

What a moronic thing to say.  Has our culture become so superficial and bedazzled by spectacle that the only way to make Warsaw in 1944 look "ominous" is to add computer-generated cartoon cyborgs?

The potential of human beings is without bound, a fact proven by the creative energy expended in testing the limits of the stupid.

[Valmy]

Large numbers of Polish citizens opted for German status and collaborated with the Reich.  To say in retrospect that they were not true Poles and that true Poles did not collaborate is a True Scotsman argument.

I knew somebody was going to bring this up.  Let me put it to you this way: less than 70% of pre-war Polish citizens self-identified as Poles.  Nobody is saying in retrospect they were not Poles, they said beforehand that they themselves were not Poles.

I see no evidence of large scale Polish participation in the Holocaust.  But that raises two issues: Poland was administered directly by the Reich and Polish Jews were pretty passive in first relocating to the ghettos and then to the extirmination camps.  So it's a hypothetical; IF Poland had been self-governing and IF the Jews had resisted relocation would the Poles have rounded them up as the Vichy French did?

Possibly.  I am sure there were Poles that would have considered their Jews a reasonable sacrifice for their sham independence.  Especially if they had attempted to emulate a fascist state like the Vichyites did.

[The Minsky Moment]

How do you define a pole if not by nationality? Defining citizens based on ethnicity is soo 20th century..

Defining citizens on the basis of nationality is so 19th century.

21st century is all about "identity".  And how did the "Polish" SS volunteers identify themselves?  Not as Poles, I would surmise.

[Neil]

Now let's be fair.  Polish is, by definition, an ethnic label (albeit an extinct one;  Today's Poles are actually Russian).  The state of Poland is illegitimate, and is rightfully a part of Germany, Russia and Austria.

[Caliga]

21st century is all about "identity".  And how did the "Polish" SS volunteers identify themselves?  Not as Poles, I would surmise.

I have to assume these were ethnic Germans.  I mean, really... Slavic SS units?

[The Brain]

Maybe identity is used to define nationality in America but in Europe we have this thing called citizenship. I can't go to Denmark and demand to vote just because I self identify as Danish.

[The Minsky Moment]

Maybe identity is used to define nationality in America but in Europe we have this thing called citizenship. I can't go to Denmark and demand to vote just because I self identify as Danish.

In Europe you have this thing called the European Union and you can move around all you want and immediately secure a broad array of civil rights regardless of nationality.

[Admiral Yi]

I knew somebody was going to bring this up.  Let me put it to you this way: less than 70% of pre-war Polish citizens self-identified as Poles.  Nobody is saying in retrospect they were not Poles, they said beforehand that they themselves were not Poles.

70% sounds like it just about accounts for the Jews and Ukrainians.

[Valmy]

Maybe identity is used to define nationality in America but in Europe we have this thing called citizenship. I can't go to Denmark and demand to vote just because I self identify as Danish.

Strange, because it sure seemed to work for those ethnic Germans who moved to Germany from the Soviet Union after 1989.

[Neil]

Maybe identity is used to define nationality in America but in Europe we have this thing called citizenship. I can't go to Denmark and demand to vote just because I self identify as Danish.

In Europe you have this thing called the European Union and you can move around all you want and immediately secure a broad array of civil rights regardless of nationality.

I would imagine that would very much depend on where you are from in Europe, wouldn't it?