Israeli atrocities in Gaza

[Siege]

Every time the IDF attacks Hamas, they will destroy civilian lives and properties. And hence it will increase the popularity of Hamas at the population. That is what we have seen the last decades in the Middle-East, but also in other regions of the world.

Another solution to destroy Hamas could be "doing nothing". Let the economic blockade do its job, so the people at Gaza get tired from their Hamas-masters. That seemed to have worked with organisations like the IRA and ETA. People got tired from the swollen rethoric from those organisations and the economical problems of their resistance. They just want peace and prosperity.

However the problem of that tactics is, that Israel has to endure the stream of rockets, fired from Gaza. It is clear that they don't want that.

You are forgetting one thing. Palestinians are not nice european educated people. They ain't irish or vasque. You might argue all you want about how uncivilized the irish and vasque are according to european standards. They are still european educated.

[Jos Theelen]

You are forgetting one thing. Palestinians are not nice european educated people. They ain't irish or vasque. You might argue all you want about how uncivilized the irish and vasque are according to european standards. They are still european educated.

But how would that influence the behaviour of the Palestinians? Would they start to hate Hamas, in the scenario where the IDF attacks again and again, to destroy Hamas? Or would they still want war, even when Israel is doing nothing?

[Alatriste]

It's one thing when the usual European anti-Semites claim atrocities.  It's concerning when Israeli soldiers themselves now lay the accusations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090321/wl_time/08599188685600

I don't know what to think about this.

That's raciss, you know. Sterotyping and all that crap 

Actually, I have to say this: if someone had written such a sweeping, broad and offensive generalization regarding the US of America [brings hand to heart] and his patriotic, courageous and fair citizens, the Loony Brigade(TM) would have already suffered one or two seizures...

[DGuller]

I wasn't making a statement about all Europeans, and I don't see how my post can be interpreted as such.  I was referring to the usual suspects that are Europeans, and whose criticism of Israel has no credibility.

[Valmy]

Another solution to destroy Hamas could be "doing nothing". Let the economic blockade do its job, so the people at Gaza get tired from their Hamas-masters. That seemed to have worked with organisations like the IRA and ETA. People got tired from the swollen rethoric from those organisations and the economical problems of their resistance. They just want peace and prosperity.

However the problem of that tactics is, that Israel has to endure the stream of rockets, fired from Gaza. It is clear that they don't want that.

Well I am sure the government wishes they could just ignore the rocket attacks.  There is very little to do about them but for some reason the Israeli civilians are not very happy about them and want the government to take action.

The situation just sucks ass all around.  If the Palestinians are not suffering from fatigue at this point they never will.

I personally think both sides are just resigned to endless conflict at this point and nobody really thinks a resolution is possible.

[Valmy]

As for the atrocities, well there just reaches a point where tragedy becomes farce.  It would take one hell of a fucked up situation in the that conflict to really tug at my heart strings at this point.

[Siege]

You are forgetting one thing. Palestinians are not nice european educated people. They ain't irish or vasque. You might argue all you want about how uncivilized the irish and vasque are according to european standards. They are still european educated.

But how would that influence the behaviour of the Palestinians? Would they start to hate Hamas, in the scenario where the IDF attacks again and again, to destroy Hamas? Or would they still want war, even when Israel is doing nothing?

What I'm saying is that you are assuming a rationality from the part of the palestinians that they obviously don't have.
They will never blame Hamas for bringing all this war upon them.
Whatever seem logical to you, they see it in a diferent way.

[grumbler]

Well I am sure the government wishes they could just ignore the rocket attacks.  There is very little to do about them but for some reason the Israeli civilians are not very happy about them and want the government to take action.

The situation just sucks ass all around.  If the Palestinians are not suffering from fatigue at this point they never will.

As I have pointed out a couple of times, it would be better for everyone if israel simply sucked up the modest damage caused by the rocket fire.  The Israeli political setup, however, is designed such that it almost always produces weak governments, and weak governments are unable to shrug off even small criticisms, even if doing so would be in the nation's interests.

Very frustrating.

[Siege]

As for the atrocities, well there just reaches a point where tragedy becomes farce.  It would take one hell of a fucked up situation in the that conflict to really tug at my heart strings at this point.

You have a heart???

[grumbler]

What I'm saying is that you are assuming a rationality from the part of the palestinians that they obviously don't have.
They will never blame Hamas for bringing all this war upon them.
Whatever seem logical to you, they see it in a diferent way.

I daresay you are not a very trustworthy source when it comes to an unbiased view of Palestinians.  In fact, you talk of Palestinians pretty much exactly like the anti-Semites talks of Jews.

Yeah, there are problems, but that does not mean that no Palestinians will ever recognize the futility of violence.  Like the Israeli zealots, the (more numerous) Palestinian zealots will, in fact, gag on blood if sufficient blood is spilled over sufficient time.

[Siege]

Well I am sure the government wishes they could just ignore the rocket attacks.  There is very little to do about them but for some reason the Israeli civilians are not very happy about them and want the government to take action.

The situation just sucks ass all around.  If the Palestinians are not suffering from fatigue at this point they never will.

As I have pointed out a couple of times, it would be better for everyone if israel simply sucked up the modest damage caused by the rocket fire.  The Israeli political setup, however, is designed such that it almost always produces weak governments, and weak governments are unable to shrug off even small criticisms, even if doing so would be in the nation's interests.

Very frustrating.

People are dying in this rocket attacks. You know that, right?
A govertment first priority is to protect its citizen.
What you are asking is unthinkable.
Would you recomend the same if the dying were american civilians?

[Savonarola]

You have a heart???

I have the heart of a small boy...and I keep it in a jar on my desk

-Stephen King

[Siege]

What I'm saying is that you are assuming a rationality from the part of the palestinians that they obviously don't have.
They will never blame Hamas for bringing all this war upon them.
Whatever seem logical to you, they see it in a diferent way.

I daresay you are not a very trustworthy source when it comes to an unbiased view of Palestinians.  In fact, you talk of Palestinians pretty much exactly like the anti-Semites talks of Jews.

Yeah, there are problems, but that does not mean that no Palestinians will ever recognize the futility of violence.  Like the Israeli zealots, the (more numerous) Palestinian zealots will, in fact, gag on blood if sufficient blood is spilled over sufficient time.

No they wont.
Israeli culture is essentially western culture, with the same value on life and the same taboo on killing civilians.
Palestinians don't have any of this.

[Malthus]

Well I am sure the government wishes they could just ignore the rocket attacks.  There is very little to do about them but for some reason the Israeli civilians are not very happy about them and want the government to take action.

The situation just sucks ass all around.  If the Palestinians are not suffering from fatigue at this point they never will.

As I have pointed out a couple of times, it would be better for everyone if israel simply sucked up the modest damage caused by the rocket fire.  The Israeli political setup, however, is designed such that it almost always produces weak governments, and weak governments are unable to shrug off even small criticisms, even if doing so would be in the nation's interests.

Very frustrating.

I can well imagine the reaction of the US public (or Canadian for that matter) to being told by its government to just suck up the modest damage terrorist attacks on civilians cause. I doubt any government on this side of the Atlantic would be able to in effect do nothing in response to (say) rockets landing in Texas fired by Mexican state actors. 

[HVC]

Well I am sure the government wishes they could just ignore the rocket attacks.  There is very little to do about them but for some reason the Israeli civilians are not very happy about them and want the government to take action.

The situation just sucks ass all around.  If the Palestinians are not suffering from fatigue at this point they never will.

As I have pointed out a couple of times, it would be better for everyone if israel simply sucked up the modest damage caused by the rocket fire.  The Israeli political setup, however, is designed such that it almost always produces weak governments, and weak governments are unable to shrug off even small criticisms, even if doing so would be in the nation's interests.

Very frustrating.

I can well imagine the reaction of the US public (or Canadian for that matter) to being told by its government to just suck up the modest damage terrorist attacks on civilians cause. I doubt any government on this side of the Atlantic would be able to in effect do nothing in response to (say) rockets landing in Texas fired by Mexican state actors. 

I'm sure the Israeli's won't mind taking one for the western team