Powerful narrative vs. historical accuracy

[Ed Anger]

I like it when an the English are given short shrift in a movie, because the whining from over there is hilarious.

Like that U-whatever movie.

[Caliga]

I like it when an the English are given short shrift in a movie, because the whining from over there is hilarious.

Braveheart.

I sorta agree with Bee Bee, but the thing is... who cares what the ignorant unwashed masses think?  They'll forget about the movie in a day or two, and anyway their opinions don't matter.

[Caliga]

Also, don't forget The Patriot.

English = Nazis.

[Ed Anger]

Also, don't forget The Patriot.

English = Nazis.

They are. Little fat, surly wannabe nazis.

[Caliga]

They are. Little fat, surly wannabe nazis.

The thing that I always wondered about: if Gibson thinks English=Nazis, then why weren't the Brits the good guys in that movie? 

[Barrister]

I sorta agree with Bee Bee, but the thing is... who cares what the ignorant unwashed masses think?  They'll forget about the movie in a day or two, and anyway their opinions don't matter.

The thing is - their opinions do mater, and they won't forget about the movie.

According to our Colosseum tour guide, people are always asking about Maximus.

And near the William Wallace memorial in Scotland, there is a statue of William Wallace straight out of the movie Braveheart (and not to mentin all the Braveheart-themed items for sale).  There is a tragic mixing of the movie and real history.

[Syt]

Also, don't forget The Patriot.

English = Nazis.

They are. Little fat, surly wannabe nazis.

[Caliga]

And near the William Wallace memorial in Scotland, there is a statue of William Wallace straight out of the movie Braveheart (and not to mentin all the Braveheart-themed items for sale).  There is a tragic mixing of the movie and real history.

Ok, but how do your examples illustrate that their opinions matter?

[Barrister]

And near the William Wallace memorial in Scotland, there is a statue of William Wallace straight out of the movie Braveheart (and not to mentin all the Braveheart-themed items for sale).  There is a tragic mixing of the movie and real history.

Ok, but how do your examples illustrate that their opinions matter?

They vote.  They help shape public policy.

As far as I can tell the entire Scottish Independence movement is driven by such flawed views of history.

[Sheilbh]

As far as I can tell the entire Scottish Independence movement is driven by such flawed views of history.

That's nonsense.  The SNP did hand out leaflets to queues waiting outside the cinema to see Braveheart and they make use of that sort of historically inaccurate nationalist romanticism.  But the election after Braveheart was Labour's best, though the SNP did okay.  The reason the SNP are successful is they've got political nous and the other Scottish parties are in a bit of a state.

I think the idea that the movement's driven by the film is a bit weird.  Surely it's just that the fatalist, historically inaccurate, romantic version of history that's used by nationalist movements the world over, makes for a pretty good film?

[The Brain]

As far as I can tell the entire Scottish Independence movement is driven by such flawed views of history.

That's nonsense.  The SNP did hand out leaflets to queues waiting outside the cinema to see Braveheart and they make use of that sort of historically inaccurate nationalist romanticism.  But the election after Braveheart was Labour's best, though the SNP did okay.  The reason the SNP are successful is they've got political nous and the other Scottish parties are in a bit of a state.

I think the idea that the movement's driven by the film is a bit weird.  Surely it's just that the fatalist, historically inaccurate, romantic version of history that's used by nationalist movements the world over, makes for a pretty good film?

English motherfucker, do you read it?

[Barrister]

As far as I can tell the entire Scottish Independence movement is driven by such flawed views of history.

That's nonsense.  The SNP did hand out leaflets to queues waiting outside the cinema to see Braveheart and they make use of that sort of historically inaccurate nationalist romanticism.  But the election after Braveheart was Labour's best, though the SNP did okay.  The reason the SNP are successful is they've got political nous and the other Scottish parties are in a bit of a state.

I think the idea that the movement's driven by the film is a bit weird.  Surely it's just that the fatalist, historically inaccurate, romantic version of history that's used by nationalist movements the world over, makes for a pretty good film?

I didn't blame Braveheart for the SNP.  I blamed "flawed views of history" such as Braveheart.  The movie is only an example.

[Viking]

As far as I can tell the entire Scottish Independence movement is driven by such flawed views of history.

That's nonsense.  The SNP did hand out leaflets to queues waiting outside the cinema to see Braveheart and they make use of that sort of historically inaccurate nationalist romanticism.  But the election after Braveheart was Labour's best, though the SNP did okay.  The reason the SNP are successful is they've got political nous and the other Scottish parties are in a bit of a state.

I think the idea that the movement's driven by the film is a bit weird.  Surely it's just that the fatalist, historically inaccurate, romantic version of history that's used by nationalist movements the world over, makes for a pretty good film?

I didn't blame Braveheart for the SNP.  I blamed "flawed views of history" such as Braveheart.  The movie is only an example.

Haggis and Kilts are english, didn't you get the memo?

[Josquius]

I like it when an the English are given short shrift in a movie, because the whining from over there is hilarious.

Like that U-whatever movie.

There rarely is such whining. That's why films always have English badguys, they can get away with it.

They vote.  They help shape public policy.

As far as I can tell the entire Scottish Independence movement is driven by such flawed views of history.

Nah, its football thats more to blame.

[Caliga]

They vote.  They help shape public policy.

As far as I can tell the entire Scottish Independence movement is driven by such flawed views of history.

How does a flawed view of Roman history, for example, affect what people will vote for or how public policy is shaped?

I used to feel the exact same way as you do until I was having a conversation with somebody on this topic and it dawned on me that it just doesn't matter what dumb people think about things like history, since there is no path that I can see between "flawed view of history" and "poor public policy".

Your Braveheart -> Scottish nationalism example may be the best one we have, but apparently that's flawed, according to Shelf (previously I might have cited that if I'd been taking your side).

I expect someone will pull out Triumph of the Will -> Nazism now, but the Nazis were already firmly in power when that movie debuted.

I'm not saying there is no way you can be right about this, but I need a concrete example before I can go back to agreeing with this notion.