Go Persians, go!

[Sheilbh]

I think in a revolutionary moment the people who can act decisively to seize opportunities tend to do well. I think that was true around Khomeini'sstrongest supporters - and I think Khomeini is an extraordinary figure.

I know he's a hate figure on the right (in part for this) but I think Foucault's writing from when he went to Iran in 1978-79 is really interesting in part because he's about the only western observer who actually sees what's happening rather than just layering their own preconceptions (about modernity, revolution, politics, progress) onto it.

[Norgy]

Are there any Western observers in Iran now? Nope.
We know very little.

[Legbiter]

I'd say the regime won this. Trump probably got a lot of frantic phone calls from Gulf Arabs telling him not to go in. The street protests have been put down brutally, probably exceeding Tiananmen Square by a comfortable order of magnitude at least. We'll see. A weak disunited Iran probably serves their interests best. 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

As Iran seems to be slowly loosening restrictions on the internet I assume the revolt has been smothered in blood already.
In any case: no universities were occupied or red lines drawn.

[Duque de Bragança]

I know he's a hate figure on the right (in part for this) but I think Foucault's writing from when he went to Iran in 1978-79 is really interesting in part because he's about the only western observer who actually sees what's happening rather than just layering their own preconceptions (about modernity, revolution, politics, progress) onto it.

Actually, Foucault was layering his own preconceptions on the Islamic Revolution, which made him a useful idiot of the islamists, despite some pussyfooting and later lame attempts to disavow Khomeiny (calling himl a saint so much for structuralism and post-modernity).

Foucault et la révolution iranienne
Fin 1978, il se rend à Téhéran après le massacre de la place Jaleh, dans le cadre d'un reportage pour le Corriere della Sera, qui inaugure une série de reportages effectués par des intellectuels. À son retour, il consacre à la Révolution iranienne plusieurs articles enthousiastes qui déclenchent une vive polémique[56]. Certains l'accuseront de soutenir l'Ayatollah Khomeini[57]. Pourtant, il distingue la « spiritualité politique » des insurgés du « gouvernement sanglant d'un clergé intégriste » et refuse surtout de penser cette révolution, qu'il préfère appeler « insurrection », à l'aune de son résultat :

« Les religieux iraniens veulent authentifier leur régime par les significations qu'avait le soulèvement. On ne fait pas autre chose qu'eux en disqualifiant le soulèvement parce qu'il y a aujourd'hui un gouvernement de mollahs[58]. »
Cependant, et malgré des réserves, Foucault s'avoue impressionné par les objectifs du nouveau régime :

« Je me sens embarrassé pour parler du gouvernement islamique comme « idée » ou même comme « idéal ». Mais comme « volonté politique », il m'a impressionné. Il m'a impressionné dans son effort pour politiser, en réponse à des problèmes actuels, des structures indissociablement sociales et religieuses ; il m'a impressionné dans sa tentative aussi pour ouvrir dans la politique une dimension spirituelle[59]. »
« Peut-être les sujets révoltés du chah sont-ils en train de rechercher cette chose que nous avons oubliée depuis si longtemps en Europe : une spiritualité politique. »
Spiritualité, vraiment ? Voilà encore comment le philosophe décrivait l'ayatollah se dressant face au shah :

« La situation semble être suspendue à une grande joute entre deux personnages aux blasons traditionnels : le roi et le saint, le souverain en armes et l'exilé démuni ; le despote avec en face de lui l'homme qui se dresse les mains nues, acclamé par un peuple[60]. »
Plus tôt dans l'année, il a voyagé au Japon pour la seconde fois, exprimant un intérêt pour « les limites de la rationalité occidentale » (il ajoute qu'il s'agit d'une « question qu'il est inévitable de poser parce que le Japon n'est pas en opposition à la rationalité occidentale »).

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault


As Sartre at the same time, the latter having his islamist, after marxist-leninist, stalinist, Ho-Chi-Minh and maoist periods.

Ended up asking Giscard to take more boat people, after fighting for those régimes.
OTOH, Giscard granted entry to Khomeiny...

[Sheilbh]

Are there any Western observers in Iran now? Nope.
We know very little.

Yeah. I've no idea - obviously I hope the revolters can triumph but there's so little reliable information coming out it's impossible to really think anything.

[Razgovory]

As Iran seems to be slowly loosening restrictions on the internet I assume the revolt has been smothered in blood already.
In any case: no universities were occupied or red lines drawn.

The people who occupy universities were rather on the side of the government.  Turns out the Republic of Gilead is emancipatory if it opposes the US.

[Valmy]

As Iran seems to be slowly loosening restrictions on the internet I assume the revolt has been smothered in blood already.
In any case: no universities were occupied or red lines drawn.

The people who occupy universities were rather on the side of the government.  Turns out the Republic of Gilead is emancipatory if it opposes the US.

I mean what would they be protesting? The US government already opposes Iran. There is no US government policy to protest.

[Razgovory]

As Iran seems to be slowly loosening restrictions on the internet I assume the revolt has been smothered in blood already.
In any case: no universities were occupied or red lines drawn.

The people who occupy universities were rather on the side of the government.  Turns out the Republic of Gilead is emancipatory if it opposes the US.

I mean what would they be protesting? The US government already opposes Iran. There is no US government policy to protest.

They are on the side of the Iranian regime.  The protests against the regime are part of an Imperialist-Zionist-Monarchist plot.  The people of Iran are already liberated.  That's what liberation looks like.

[Valmy]

They are on the side of the Iranian regime.  The protests against the regime are part of an Imperialist-Zionist-Monarchist plot.  The people of Iran are already liberated.  That's what liberation looks like.

I guess I missed the mass protest where this message was communicated.

Look I am sure somebody on the internet said this. But I will need to see some more convincing evidence this is a view shared by everybody who doesn't want billions of our tax dollars sent to fund an ethnic conflict in the Middle East. I don't want that and I am against the Iranian regime so...how do you explain that?

[Razgovory]

They are on the side of the Iranian regime.  The protests against the regime are part of an Imperialist-Zionist-Monarchist plot.  The people of Iran are already liberated.  That's what liberation looks like.

I guess I missed the mass protest where this message was communicated.

The protestors in Iran are apparently just Zionist mercenaries.

[Valmy]

The protestors in Iran are apparently just Zionist mercenaries.

Again I am sure somebody on the internet said this. But that is stupid.

[Razgovory]

They are on the side of the Iranian regime.  The protests against the regime are part of an Imperialist-Zionist-Monarchist plot.  The people of Iran are already liberated.  That's what liberation looks like.

Look I am sure somebody on the internet said this. But I will need to see some more convincing evidence this is a view shared by everybody who doesn't want billions of our tax dollars sent to fund an ethnic conflict in the Middle East. I don't want that and I am against the Iranian regime so...how do you explain that?

Clearly you haven't been to enough to teach-ins and haven't learned about the all-encompassing evil that is Zionism.  You are still at the Tucker Carlson level of antizionism.   "It's muh money!"  You need to graduate to the Candace Owens level of antizionism "they control everything!". 

Oh, sorry that's for right-wingers.

Change the names of Tucker Carlson to Rashida Talib and Candace Owens to Calla Walsh for a left-wing version.  Same coin, different side.

[Norgy]

At least 4200 killed. Official Iranian reports 5000, including around 500 from the security forces.

Arrests in the tens of thousands.