Working From Home

[crazy canuck]

CC, have you surveyed your workforce how they'd feel about the option to WFH?

Yes, that was the first thing we did when our Provincial Health Officer removed her order restricting working in the office.

I personally would have liked to have downsided our office space.  I would have made a lot more money not having to pay that overhead cost.  But the staff and junior lawyers, and many partners, wanted to return in a large percentage.

That goes to a point Garbon has made.  It is detrimental to younger folks to just be at home.

[crazy canuck]

People need to recognise there are advantages and disadvantages for both.

Remote work pros:

* recruitment. It's popular and you have a broader choice of people to begin with in any one place.
* commute elimination
* easier for self organised exercise and interaction.
* more sleep.
* more flexibility
* opens up a broader array of jobs to people all over the country.
* much better for those with accessibility needs.
* no facilities costs for the company.
* privacy/being treat like an adult.

Remote work cons :

* miss out on incidental learning and colab.
* innovation workshops are much harder. I organised and ran one for Indian unis last year and it was just nowhere near as good as in person. So much lost without the physical space and face to face
* broader societal effects bode poorly (several here)
* less enforced exercise and interaction. Which some need.
* favours the already rich who have a home work space and don't care about the extra bills.
* puts company more out of reach of customers without a physical address where everyone is.
* potential retention suffering vs other remote jobs.

You are assuming WFH helps with recruitment I think because of your preferences.  It is actually not that great for younger people, who are the ones we are trying to recruit.

Also, the accessibility issue is hard for WFH.  It is just not feasible to have the same sort of accommodated work space area in a home environment.  A number of our clients had challenges in that regard and when their employees who had accommodations could return to the office, they did.

Why do you think that people are not treated like an adult in an office?

[HVC]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

[crazy canuck]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

No

[Josquius]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

I'm not so certain there actually.
Extroverts are more likely to have a lot of shit going on outside work. They don't rely on the office for the evolutionarily dictated social interaction to keep their sanity. They have a much easier time casually calling colleagues.
I think there's examples of both who prefer each.

You are assuming WFH helps with recruitment I think because of your preferences.  It is actually not that great for younger people, who are the ones we are trying to recruit.

Colour me skeptical. You are in a very big city so it is maybe less obvious there. But I'm doubtful you'd get more people applying when they have to go to any one particular location vs. The entire country.
But then you're in a kind of job with the in person part of court fairly baked in.

Also, the accessibility issue is hard for WFH.  It is just not feasible to have the same sort of accommodated work space area in a home environment.  A number of our clients had challenges in that regard and when their employees who had accommodations could return to the office, they did.

As said a disadvantage of wfh is it favours the rich. For a poor person who needs an adapted workspace I imagine it could suck - but then are there not grants and such.

I have spoke to people who are really active in the accessibility community in the UK around this point and they have said for disabled people the rise of wfh is absolutely fantastic.

Why do you think that people are not treated like an adult in an office?

It ultimately depends on your boss. But even the coolest of bosses can only get away with so much when everyone else is watching - indeed they're watching you even if you don't report to them.
An awful lot of clock watchers out there in the work force, and locked down corporate Internet and policies that don't let you listen to Spotify or the like while you work

[crazy canuck]

As said a disadvantage of wfh is it favours the rich. For a poor person who needs an adapted workspace I imagine it could suck - but then are there not grants and such.

I have spoke to people who are really active in the accessibility community in the UK around this point and they have said for disabled people the rise of wfh is absolutely fantastic

Ok, I you have spoken to people, wonderful.

But do they have a good understanding of just how hard it is to work from home for a disabled person?  Anecdotally, we spend a lot as a firm to buy office equipment and furniture to accomodate disabilities.  Most people don't have the space in their homes for that sort of thing even if we were to replace all of that material into their home environment.

It ultimately depends on your boss.

Right, you could have a dick as a boss either way.

[Josquius]

As said a disadvantage of wfh is it favours the rich. For a poor person who needs an adapted workspace I imagine it could suck - but then are there not grants and such.

I have spoke to people who are really active in the accessibility community in the UK around this point and they have said for disabled people the rise of wfh is absolutely fantastic

Ok, I you have spoken to people, wonderful.

But do they have a good understanding of just how hard it is to work from home for a disabled person?  Anecdotally, we spend a lot as a firm to buy office equipment and furniture to accomodate disabilities.  Most people don't have the space in their homes for that sort of thing even if we were to replace all of that material into their home environment.

They're disabled as are many of the people in the accessability space. Understanding how things work for people with a range of challenges is literally their job (also an area where I'm not quite a stand alone expert but have dabbled professionally).

I'm surprised in Canada people don't have this space. I thought your homes were much bigger then here.

Right, you could have a dick as a boss either way.

And if remote that's just one person you have to hope about. Maybe their boss and any others you interact with too.
In person it's every boss in the company.

[crazy canuck]

I'm surprised in Canada people don't have this space. I thought your homes were much bigger then here.

No need to be surprised.  We do.  And they advocate effectively for the need for workplace accommodations.

[DGuller]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

I don't think it's that simple at all.  I'm very introverted but I can't stand working at home.  Introversion doesn't meant that you don't like dealing with all people, but rather that you desire few deep connections rather than many superficial ones.  Working from home actually prevents you from forming deep connections with your co-workers.

[Tamas]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

I don't think it's that simple at all.  I'm very introverted but I can't stand working at home.  Introversion doesn't meant that you don't like dealing with all people, but rather that you desire few deep connections rather than many superficial ones.  Working from home actually prevents you from forming deep connections with your co-workers.

My problem with that is that a workplace should be a place of business. Developing personal connections with coworkers is great but if you feel the need to have personal connections with people, you should NOT be limiting yourself to coworkers. Work from home and spend your commuting time in maintaining your relationships with old friends or to seek out new ones in your hobby areas etc.

Proponents of back-to-office often acts like the only possible way to spend the extra time freed up by WFH is to sit in a torpor. Open up your life outside of work, people.

[DGuller]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

I don't think it's that simple at all.  I'm very introverted but I can't stand working at home.  Introversion doesn't meant that you don't like dealing with all people, but rather that you desire few deep connections rather than many superficial ones.  Working from home actually prevents you from forming deep connections with your co-workers.

My problem with that is that a workplace should be a place of business. Developing personal connections with coworkers is great but if you feel the need to have personal connections with people, you should NOT be limiting yourself to coworkers. Work from home and spend your commuting time in maintaining your relationships with old friends or to seek out new ones in your hobby areas etc.

Proponents of back-to-office often acts like the only possible way to spend the extra time freed up by WFH is to sit in a torpor. Open up your life outside of work, people.

I was not talking about personal connections, I was talking about getting to know people to build chemistry with them.

[Tamas]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

I don't think it's that simple at all.  I'm very introverted but I can't stand working at home.  Introversion doesn't meant that you don't like dealing with all people, but rather that you desire few deep connections rather than many superficial ones.  Working from home actually prevents you from forming deep connections with your co-workers.

My problem with that is that a workplace should be a place of business. Developing personal connections with coworkers is great but if you feel the need to have personal connections with people, you should NOT be limiting yourself to coworkers. Work from home and spend your commuting time in maintaining your relationships with old friends or to seek out new ones in your hobby areas etc.

Proponents of back-to-office often acts like the only possible way to spend the extra time freed up by WFH is to sit in a torpor. Open up your life outside of work, people.

I was not talking about personal connections, I was talking about getting to know people to build chemistry with them.

No you were not. You were talking about developing deep connections.

[crazy canuck]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

I don't think it's that simple at all.  I'm very introverted but I can't stand working at home.  Introversion doesn't meant that you don't like dealing with all people, but rather that you desire few deep connections rather than many superficial ones.  Working from home actually prevents you from forming deep connections with your co-workers.

My problem with that is that a workplace should be a place of business. Developing personal connections with coworkers is great but if you feel the need to have personal connections with people, you should NOT be limiting yourself to coworkers. Work from home and spend your commuting time in maintaining your relationships with old friends or to seek out new ones in your hobby areas etc.

Proponents of back-to-office often acts like the only possible way to spend the extra time freed up by WFH is to sit in a torpor. Open up your life outside of work, people.

I was not talking about personal connections, I was talking about getting to know people to build chemistry with them.

No you were not. You were talking about developing deep connections.

You don't develop deep professional connections with your colleagues?  Must be because you work from home. 

[frunk]

I haven't seen a significant difference in work connections between the company I worked in person at for 20 years versus the other company I've worked remotely for for 2 1/2.  I certainly communicate more with people about work stuff working remotely versus in person which had a lot of non-work related distractions (sometimes with people that were rather unpleasant).  Only having to deal with work personalities is much better.

[Tamas]

Introverts like working at home, extroverts in the office. I think it's really that simple.

I don't think it's that simple at all.  I'm very introverted but I can't stand working at home.  Introversion doesn't meant that you don't like dealing with all people, but rather that you desire few deep connections rather than many superficial ones.  Working from home actually prevents you from forming deep connections with your co-workers.

My problem with that is that a workplace should be a place of business. Developing personal connections with coworkers is great but if you feel the need to have personal connections with people, you should NOT be limiting yourself to coworkers. Work from home and spend your commuting time in maintaining your relationships with old friends or to seek out new ones in your hobby areas etc.

Proponents of back-to-office often acts like the only possible way to spend the extra time freed up by WFH is to sit in a torpor. Open up your life outside of work, people.

I was not talking about personal connections, I was talking about getting to know people to build chemistry with them.

No you were not. You were talking about developing deep connections.

You don't develop deep professional connections with your colleagues?  Must be because you work from home. 

So the distinction between introverts and extroverts is that introverts are looking for deep professional connections while extroverts do not? Blimey. Misunderstood DGuller's post entirely.