Working From Home

[DGuller]

No you were not. You were talking about developing deep connections.

You don't have to be a distant transactional sociopath in the workplace.  Sometimes developing deep connections with co-workers doesn't give a social life, but rather it gives you a productive working relationship that may span over multiple employers.

[DGuller]

So the distinction between introverts and extroverts is that introverts are looking for deep professional connections while extroverts do not? Blimey. Misunderstood DGuller's post entirely.

Wouldn't be the first time it happened. 

There are many kinds of connections possible between human beings:  professional, social, romantic, to name a few.  All of these kinds of connections can be shallow or deep.  Given the context of the conversation, you wouldn't need to have a deep romantic connection with me to know that I was talking about professional connections.

[Tamas]

If a personal connection remains on professional grounds it cannot be deep. If you become friends that is not a professions relationship. If you don't become friends that is not a close relationship.

[Zanza]

If a personal connection remains on professional grounds it cannot be deep. If you become friends that is not a professions relationship. If you don't become friends that is not a close relationship.

Disagree. You can have deep/close professional relationships with co-workers without being friends.

[HVC]

My last boss I consider a mentor and I learned a lot from him. I'd say we had a deep business relationship, but he wasn't a friend. Wouldn't have learned half of what I did working remote.

[Tamas]

If a personal connection remains on professional grounds it cannot be deep. If you become friends that is not a professions relationship. If you don't become friends that is not a close relationship.

Disagree. You can have deep/close professional relationships with co-workers without being friends.

OK I see what you and HVC mean but then that is definitely not reliant on being in the office although it does help. And it is absolutely not an introvert/extrovert thing whether you wish for or indeed capable of establishing them.

Apart from the fact that if you know how to handle a given person then it is easier to establish.

[HVC]

In the course of my career I've trained a lot of people remote, and been remote support in general, I've also flown in for training. I admit it could be my style, but I always found it much easier to train in person. From my experience people caught on much faster in a week or two in person then even a few months remote (lots of I've forgotten how to do this type questions).

One of the weird things I found is that older people seem better in remote learning than younger people. Could be past experience, but a lot of the stuff I trained was new to people so I don't think that's it. They just seemed more comfortable asking questions remotely.

[garbon]

In the course of my career I've trained a lot of people remote, and been remote support in general, I've also flown in for training. I admit it could be my style, but I always found it much easier to train in person. From my experience people caught on much faster in a week or two in person then even a few months remote (lots of I've forgotten how to do this type questions).

One of the weird things I found is that older people seem better in remote learning than younger people. Could be past experience, but a lot of the stuff I trained was new to people so I don't think that's it. They just seemed more comfortable asking questions remotely.

For sure. Older people with more experience have been more comfortable asking questions than youth in training I've done.

[DGuller]

If a personal connection remains on professional grounds it cannot be deep. If you become friends that is not a professions relationship. If you don't become friends that is not a close relationship.

I wonder if this kind of mindset is a key differentiator between WFH people and office people.  If you can't even imagine a professional relationship being deep without becoming a different kind of relationship, then of course you don't see what you're giving up by being a hermit.

[Tamas]

If a personal connection remains on professional grounds it cannot be deep. If you become friends that is not a professions relationship. If you don't become friends that is not a close relationship.

I wonder if this kind of mindset is a key differentiator between WFH people and office people.  If you can't even imagine a professional relationship being deep without becoming a different kind of relationship, then of course you don't see what you're giving up by being a hermit.

Before you think too much into it: it's semantics. Probably a non-primary language thing. Zanza and HVC cleared it up.


But what has been revealing is you and CC considering preference of WFH (i.e. a work-life balance tilted toward life) as some weirdo behaviour.

[DGuller]

But what has been revealing is you and CC considering preference of WFH (i.e. a work-life balance tilted toward life) as some weirdo behaviour.

I don't view preference for WFH for work-life balance as a weirdo behavior at all.  If you say that you prefer WFH to hit a different balance on that scale, then you're in fact admitting that you're giving up on the work part of the equation to do better on the life part.  Nothing wrong with that as long as that works for both parties.

Where it gets into weirdo territory is when WFH people try to make a case that they're not giving up on anything important by their choice to work from home (deeper connections with co-workers in particular, given that this is what we're discussing).  That's when they start giving off the transactional sociopath vibe.  They're not saying it directly, but whether they realize it or not, they're indirectly saying that there is nothing to be gained by getting to know people as people in the workplace.  In my book, that is definitely a behavior that nudges you closer to the "weirdo" category.

[Tamas]

But what has been revealing is you and CC considering preference of WFH (i.e. a work-life balance tilted toward life) as some weirdo behaviour.

I don't view preference for WFH for work-life balance as a weirdo behavior at all.  If you say that you prefer WFH to hit a different balance on that scale, then you're in fact admitting that you're giving up on the work part of the equation to do better on the life part.  Nothing wrong with that as long as that works for both parties.

Where it gets into weirdo territory is when WFH people try to make a case that they're not giving up on anything important by their choice to work from home (deeper connections with co-workers in particular, given that this is what we're discussing).  That's when they start giving off the transactional sociopath vibe.  They're not saying it directly, but whether they realize it or not, they're indirectly saying that there is nothing to be gained by getting to know people as people in the workplace.  In my book, that is definitely a behavior that nudges you closer to the "weirdo" category.

We discussed this earlier and its obvious there are plusses and minuses to both approaches. But you are misrepresenting my opinion on relationships - I never said there is nothing to be gained from professional relationships  (my very role at work depends on being able to build such relationships), I said you can build them remotely as well, even though -as I have already wrote- they are easier to build in person indeed.

What I have been saying is that the disadvantages of WFH (less efficiency in some aspects) is more than offset by the advantages (which not just personal, but also professional in more efficiency in areas not covered by "walking around the office"). And while granting that there are fields of work which simply require or do work noticably better in an office environment, the vast majority of white collar work does not get less efficient by default from WFH, and the opposition to it is from people unable or unwilling to make adjustments that make WFH work efficiently (and thus making it overall better for them than office-based work).

[Josquius]

I don't view preference for WFH for work-life balance as a weirdo behavior at all.  If you say that you prefer WFH to hit a different balance on that scale, then you're in fact admitting that you're giving up on the work part of the equation to do better on the life part.  Nothing wrong with that as long as that works for both parties.

Its layered though.
Very arguable that looking after yourself and having a better work life balance actually makes you a more productive worker than someone who just puts in the mandated time.
It's not for nothing afterall that upper management often talks up work life balance.

As mentioned the best teams I've been part of are ones where the boss treats you like an adult and doesn't keep attendance and all that shit. Best both in terms of my enjoyment of the work and in terms of outputs.

[crazy canuck]

If a personal connection remains on professional grounds it cannot be deep. If you become friends that is not a professions relationship. If you don't become friends that is not a close relationship.

I wonder if this kind of mindset is a key differentiator between WFH people and office people.  If you can't even imagine a professional relationship being deep without becoming a different kind of relationship, then of course you don't see what you're giving up by being a hermit.

Before you think too much into it: it's semantics. Probably a non-primary language thing. Zanza and HVC cleared it up.


But what has been revealing is you and CC considering preference of WFH (i.e. a work-life balance tilted toward life) as some weirdo behaviour.

I am not sure anyone has said it is wierdo behaviour.  But it is something that is career limiting and not optimal, particularly for younger people looking to develop their knowledge and further their careers.

It is also not very popular outside of particular types of work.  Maybe that is what you are referring to as wierdo.  If so, stop self labelling yourself that way 

[Tamas]

Yeah totally the vibe I am getting, grossly unpopular to work from home. You made the right choice with your company.