Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Zoupa]

I'm hard pressed to think what possible target is worth the amount of civilian deaths.

How do you know they were all civilians?

I didn't say they all were.

[Razgovory]

Okay, so between 0-100 civilians were killed along with 0-100 Hamas members.

[Zoupa]

Okay, so between 0-100 civilians were killed along with 0-100 Hamas members.

I guess you haven't seen the pictures.

[Grey Fox]

In this UN agency ban by Israel, Egypt is once again getting off scot-free.

 

[Razgovory]

Okay, so between 0-100 civilians were killed along with 0-100 Hamas members.

I guess you haven't seen the pictures.

Nope.

[Zoupa]

Okay, so between 0-100 civilians were killed along with 0-100 Hamas members.

I guess you haven't seen the pictures.

Nope.

You seem very comfortable giving your opinion with minimal research into the event.

I guess this is Languish after all.

[crazy canuck]

Well, BB based his justification on the fact he didn't know anything, so I am not sure it's fair to come down too hard on Raz.  It is the go to defence for the actions of the IDF. 

[The Minsky Moment]

We'll see what evidence the Israelis produce, but combined with the UNRWA ban and the policy of restricting independent journalists from reporting out of Gaza, it's not a good look.

[crazy canuck]

We'll see what evidence the Israelis produce, but combined with the UNRWA ban and the policy of restricting independent journalists from reporting out of Gaza, it's not a good look.

I infer from the way the US reacted to it, and the fact that the Israelis have not responded to the American request for an explanation, that this was a tragic mistake.  If that inference is correct, the Israelis are making the situation worse by not just coming out and saying that.  It starts to look more like it was intentional.

[viper37]

I've largely kept out of this thread, because to be honest what else is there to say after 80 years of this.

But after reading the news about an IDF strike in northern Gaza yesterday that killed about 100 Palestinians (40 still under the rubble), I'm really wondering about their military's decision making process.

It's been described before, when they made that "tragic mistake" that killed humanitarian workers.  The 2nd or 3rd time or so.

The Gospel (previous called Lavender, I don't know why), an advanced AI targeting system identifies the targets to be hit, determines if they are civilian or terrorists.  A human is supposed to revise the targets, but he only has a few seconds to make up his mind about the validity of the target.  It's a convenient way to slaughter more Palestinians than ever before.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/05/02/israel-military-artificial-intelligence-targeting-hamas-gaza-deaths-lavender/

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/israel-ai-warfare-gaza-00144491

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/israels-targeting-ai-how-capable-it

Some who track AI warfare policy in the U.S. argue Israel is distorting the technology's purpose — using it to expand target lists rather than protect civilians. And, they say, the U.S. should be calling out the IDF for that breach of ethics.

"It's been clear that Israel has been using AI to have what they call 'power targets' so they are using it intentionally — as opposed to what it's supposed to be, which is helping with precision — to target civilians," said Nancy Okail, president of progressive foreign policy think tank the Center for International Policy. She said the IDF appears to be allowing for a broad definition of these "power targets" — which the military's intelligence branch defines as "targets with security or perception significance to Hamas or the Palestinian Islamic Jihad."


"With over 30,000 casualties in Gaza, it's hard to tell if the IDF is using high-tech AI to identify targets or throwing darts at a map," said Shaan Shaikh, deputy director and fellow with the Missile Defense Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "The U.S. should use its untapped leverage to shape these operations, but so far, the Biden administration has been unwilling to do so."

Yet so far Israel's AI use in its military offensive hasn't caught much attention in Washington discussions of the Israel-Hamas conflict.

Human rights groups stateside say they're more focused on Israel's decision to target civilian infrastructure, rather than the technology used to do so. As POLITICO has reported, aid organizations and medical facilities have been struck even after their GPS coordinates were provided to Israeli authorities. And Israel has said it considers civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools a fair target because Hamas has hidden fighters and weapons in these buildings.

As usual, the left is totally missing the point, even when they're right to be outraged.  <sigh>.

[Iormlund]

I'm hard pressed to think what possible target is worth the amount of civilian deaths.

How many civilian deaths would Nasrallah be worth? Sinwar? A lieutenant? A weapons depot? a communications centre? A rocket launcher? A random militant?

[Razgovory]

Okay, so between 0-100 civilians were killed along with 0-100 Hamas members.

I guess you haven't seen the pictures.

Nope.

You seem very comfortable giving your opinion with minimal research into the event.

I guess this is Languish after all.

I don't make a habit of searching for pictures of dead bodies.

[crazy canuck]

Okay, so between 0-100 civilians were killed along with 0-100 Hamas members.

I guess you haven't seen the pictures.

Nope.

You seem very comfortable giving your opinion with minimal research into the event.

I guess this is Languish after all.

I don't make a habit of searching for pictures of dead bodies.

Not much searching was required.  You really just needed to read a reputable newspaper.

[Razgovory]

As it happens I did search for an article.  I found an Al-Jazeera article (among other more antizionist outlets), they showed a picture of rubble not that different than the perfectly acceptable piles of rubble photographed in Syria.

[crazy canuck]

As it happens I did search for an article.  I found an Al-Jazeera article (among other more antizionist outlets), they showed a picture of rubble not that different than the perfectly acceptable piles of rubble photographed in Syria.

Try the New York Times article that was published shortly after the event.  I quoted from it up thread.