Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

Violence in everyday behaviour, violence against the past that is emptied of all substance, violence against the future, for the colonial regime presents itself as necessarily eternal. We see, therefore, that the colonized people, caught in a web of a three-dimensional violence, a meeting point of multiple, diverse, repeated, cumulative violences, are soon logically confronted by the problem of ending the colonial regime by any means necessary. —Frantz Fanon, Alienation and Freedom: part 3, chapter 22, "Why we use violence".

Some believe that, yes.

It's also useful however to remember the successful efforts of activists such as Gandhi, Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King who all preached non-violence.

"By any means necessary" has become something of a slogan among the pro-Palestinian crowd.  Rape is apparently one of these means deemed necessary.  And who are we Westerners, who sit in our comfy homes, to tell the Palestinians how to fight for their own liberation? 

[Josquius]

Just the kind of stuff viper / josq defend:

Yeah... If there's one political position which is pro rape you couldn't be more wrong than to point at the left.
The far right now... They do tend to be pretty rapey.

If you want Muslims to step away from ultra conservatism and all it's attached shit then screaming bloody murder at them and putting them into a siege mentality Is not a smart approach

Would this apply Christian conservatives as well?

This smells like an attempted gotcha?
Pretty misplaced.

It generally applies there too. Just mindlessly attacking people is a shit way to get them to change their mind. More opportunities for people from impoverished Christian communities would also be a very good thing.

Though it should be noted things are a bit different with Muslims as they're a minority and it's representatives of the empowered majority throwing the hate their way.
With Christians it's usually the majority acting within their own group so the damage and push back isn't so strong. Though attempting to create a "us" vs the "liberal metropolitan elite" division is certainly a prime tactic some use to try to wedge this open.
Things don't work according to neat and simple one size fits all rules as conservatives believe.

[Admiral Yi]

Squeeze, yet another example of the alien workings of your mind.

You've repeated a few times this strange dichotomy between "mindlessly attacking"  and "creating more opportunities."  What exactly does one have to do with the other?  Publicly criticizing Islam doesn't deny anyone an opportunity.  They can still pursue education, get jobs, live where they want to.

If you're going to force a dichotomy, it would seem the natural ones are between mindlessly attacking and total acceptance (you have your own customs about stoning gays) and between denial of opportunity and creation of opportunity.

[Admiral Yi]

BTW, have you guys heard about the new Israeli collateral damage mitigation plan?  They've divided Gaza into map grids and are warning civilians which individual map grids to evacuate.

Heard on NPR yesterday.

[viper37]

OvB says he hates all Muslism and Palestinians should be deported from Israel to make room fro the Jewish population.

I never said this--and this is where I write you off. This is at least the 2nd time you blatantly lied in this thread.

I now assume the following about you:

1. You literally hate Jews, and are an antisemitic scumbag
2. You are happy about the 10/7 attack, probably gleefully laughing to reports of Israeli women being raped and murdered and babies being killed
3. You are a monstrous genocidal piece of shit who wants to see all the Jews in Israel in Muslim death camps

1)  if it were true, I'd be unable to have a civil conversation with Minsk or Malthus here over the years.
2) you sure like your projections.
3) again with the projections.  You should see someone about it. Maybe Raz can help you.

[viper37]

BTW, have you guys heard about the new Israeli collateral damage mitigation plan?  They've divided Gaza into map grids and are warning civilians which individual map grids to evacuate.

Heard on NPR yesterday.

Yes, it's easier to destroy everything in a grid pattern than with carpet bombing.  Less chances of having the odd building standing tall.

Makes a large crowd easier to control too.

They still won't be allowed back in Gaza though.  That's gone.  Israel is still trying to move the population elsewhere, despite the US warnings, and disguise it as a voluntary departure.

[viper37]

Squeeze, yet another example of the alien workings of your mind.

You've repeated a few times this strange dichotomy between "mindlessly attacking"  and "creating more opportunities."  What exactly does one have to do with the other?  Publicly criticizing Islam doesn't deny anyone an opportunity.  They can still pursue education, get jobs, live where they want to.

If you're going to force a dichotomy, it would seem the natural ones are between mindlessly attacking and total acceptance (you have your own customs about stoning gays) and between denial of opportunity and creation of opportunity.

All Muslims are rapists.  Just like Blacks and Mexicans, they crave white women.

Islam promotes violence and rapes.

Jews are attracted to power and money.

Judaism promotes slavery.



All of these statements are false.  2 of them target the people directly and have caused violence in the past.

2 others attack the Faith by twisting their scriptures.  I'd say it's hate speech designed to stymatize the people, not cticize the religion.


Telling people to keep their religion at home is a criticism of their Faith.  Mocking Donald Trump as a figure of "second Jesus " is criticism
Lamenting that the Catholic Church has been slow to punish pedophile priests and abusive religious communities is a criticism.

But none of these expose Christians to hatred.  The Church is still full for special events in my home and half full on Sundays.  No cops, no security guards.

Can't say the same for Jewish schools across Canada currently, sadly.

A few Mosques have been vandalized too, and some Arab people were attacked in TO.

I never thought it'd reached that level of intensity over here.

[viper37]

This smells like an attempted Gotcha

It's Raz, you know.  if you try to fight against radicalizatiom in your own country and prevent your youths from joining ISIS, you're racist and intolerant because you don't let Muslims practice their Faith.

If you don't approve of the Siegebreakers of Israel, just like for Otto, you're a vicious Hater who want them all killed.

I think Otto and Raz would make perfect recruits for the Russian government.  they had lots of openings lately, due to malfunctionning windows.  you'd be in your natural element, surrounded by fascist and traitors who can't understand why you need their lands.

[Gups]

BTW, have you guys heard about the new Israeli collateral damage mitigation plan?  They've divided Gaza into map grids and are warning civilians which individual map grids to evacuate.

Heard on NPR yesterday.

Yeah, though apparently the grids change frequently

[OttoVonBismarck]

1)  if it were true, I'd be unable to have a civil conversation with Minsk or Malthus here over the years.

"I'm not racist, I have several black friends."

2) you sure like your projections.

And you appear to enjoy willfully lying about what other people have said, in what can only now be categorized as a campaign of deliberate dishonesty undertaken in support of Hamas.

[Jacob]

I confess, it's not clear to me whether Nethanyahu is actually trying to drive the Palestinians out of Gaza or not.

[Gups]

I confess, it's not clear to me whether Nethanyahu is actually trying to drive the Palestinians out of Gaza or not.

My guess is that Nethanyahu's main/only priority is Nethanyahu

[Jacob]

I confess, it's not clear to me whether Nethanyahu is actually trying to drive the Palestinians out of Gaza or not.

My guess is that Nethanyahu's main/only priority is Nethanyahu

No doubt.

At which point the question becomes whether Nethanyahu thinks attempting to drive the Palestinians out of Gaza serves his interests.

[crazy canuck]

I confess, it's not clear to me whether Nethanyahu is actually trying to drive the Palestinians out of Gaza or not.

My guess is that Nethanyahu's main/only priority is Nethanyahu

No doubt.

At which point the question becomes whether Nethanyahu thinks attempting to drive the Palestinians out of Gaza serves his interests.

It serves the interests of the extreme right that he had to turn to return to power.  That is what matters now.

[Tamas]

It wouldn't overly surprise me if they wanted to do that, however they sure don't seem to be serious about it. Do we have a recorded case in history of 2 million people relocated? Maybe post 1945 aggregate numbers exceed that but that was organised between states willing to take the refugees AND it was organised openly.

They would have to actually kill most of that 2 million to make them force themselves through thr Egyptian border and they won't do that because of public opinion. Although I guess if they did start doing that it would be tough for lefties and Muslims in the developed world to raise the (then rightful) shilling above their current genocide claims. So maybe the Israeli far right wants to use the "crying wolf" effect?