Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Talking out your ass is most like it.

What so hard to understand, there are probably two dozen Isreali-Americans/US citizens held hostage by hamas and 500-600 Palestinians-Americans who can't get out of Gaza due to the Rafah crossing being closed to them.

I applaud you for continuing to try to explain basic facts. But very few here want to hear anything but Israel is always right and any criticism of Israel is always wrong.

It is scary to see, but that is the world we live in.

I'm not sure why it is so hard for people to understand that it is possible to both condemn HAMAS and have concern for Palestinians. But again that is now the world we live in.

For me what is frustrating and telling is that there is no end to protests and articles about the tragedy that is inevitably unfolding in Gaza. Yet none of those protests or articles (apart from a sentence or two) let alone separate protests/articles aim to address the problem that Hamas -the government of Gaza- perpetrated a terror attack on hundreds if not thousands of Israeli civilians. That is already forgotten and gone from concerns of the general world. It seems if Israel opted to do nothing and simply return to the status quo, passively waiting for the next such massacre, that would be a-ok with a lot of people.

"First the jews, then the Christians."

Just keep that in mind.
And the self-loathing of a lot of westerners being useful idiots in those protests.

edit: Could be that the Iranian protests are heating up again since the morality police beat another teenage girl to death because she didn't want to imprison her head in cloth. Depending on how serious it gets, it may have an effect on what actions Iran can actually take.

[viper37]

For me what is frustrating and telling is that there is no end to protests and articles about the tragedy that is inevitably unfolding in Gaza. Yet none of those protests or articles (apart from a sentence or two) let alone separate protests/articles aim to address the problem that Hamas -the government of Gaza- perpetrated a terror attack on hundreds if not thousands of Israeli civilians. That is already forgotten and gone from concerns of the general world. It seems if Israel opted to do nothing and simply return to the status quo, passively waiting for the next such massacre, that would be a-ok with a lot of people.

It's the love being displayed by the supporters of the coallition
https://twitter.com/GabeZZOZZ/status/1713170844464136376?t=WVroucEJAs8Fnqic6OyjRw&s=19

Anyway.  Why did this attack happened? Why was Hamas allowed to grow into such a threat? Why was the PLO and the later the PA always seen as the biggest threat of all but never the fundies?

That's Israel, and lately, Netanyahu's policies blowing up in their face, and innocent civilians have been butchered by nazis for this.  And now, the Palestinians are paying the price of revenge because a bunch of incompetent morons thought it was better to kill Palestinian civilians in the West Bank, even when they were warned about Iran and the situation in Gaza by their own intelligence service.

It's not forgotten, it won't be, except for the anti-semites, but unless you want to cleanse the area of all Palestinians and colonize it, there ain't much short term solutions to be applied.  And that's what this government has in mind, and what's worrying is that it let the situation degenerate enough that it now has the tacit support of a majority of Israelis.

[viper37]

"First the jews, then the Christians."

I'm ok, I don't identify as a Christian. 

[mongers]

I can see this finishing like the end of the Tamil Tigers, on beaches packed with large numbers of trapped civilians, though possibly worse still.

Of course Hamas could start following the rules of war and removing themselves from civilian areas and conduct an 'open fight' but that would just bring about their earlier extinction and many fewer Israeli military deaths.

[Threviel]

And very very many fewer Palestinian civilians death. But it seens only the Israeli side seems unwilling to spend those lives.

[Legbiter]

I can see this finishing like the end of the Tamil Tigers, on beaches packed with large numbers of trapped civilians, though possibly worse still.

Of course Hamas could start following the rules of war and removing themselves from civilian areas and conduct an 'open fight' but that would just bring about their earlier extinction and many fewer Israeli military deaths.

The fighting necessary to take northern gaza could last a year if the Israelis try everything to minimize their own casualties. This phase of the war will not be resolved in the next few weeks. So pace yourselves accordingly.

Hamas forces in the area will go to their deaths about as gracefully as the ISIS caliphate did wrt to civilian casualties.

[viper37]

Of course Hamas could start following the rules of war and removing themselves from civilian areas and conduct an 'open fight' but that would just bring about their earlier extinction and many fewer Israeli military deaths.

Well, Hamas would never willingly do that, it's a terrorist organization.  They're the ones who developed the MO of striking first responders right after a terrorist attack to maximize casualties.

Secondly, I'm not sure there are a non civilian areas in Gaza.  How tightly packed are they over there? 6500 people per square km.  There must not be large tracts of unused land where the Hamas could install military bases.  

Anyway, they are probably mostly underground to avoid detection by Israel and being targeted by air/missile strikes.  They probably carry their rocket or missile launcher parts above ground when they want to strike at Israel and assemble them above ground then.

[grumbler]

Talking out your ass is most like it.

What so hard to understand, there are probably two dozen Isreali-Americans/US citizens held hostage by hamas and 500-600 Palestinians-Americans who can't get out of Gaza due to the Rafah crossing being closed to them.

What so hard to understand?  You make the claims that "Biden has all but washed his hands of the 500-600 Americans in Gaza" and that it "seems like the US administration has fully embraced collective punishment" but give no evidence for either assertion.

[Admiral Yi]

What so hard to understand, there are probably two dozen Isreali-Americans/US citizens held hostage by hamas and 500-600 Palestinians-Americans who can't get out of Gaza due to the Rafah crossing being closed to them.

The part I'm having a hard time understanding is how 500-600 Palestinian Americans who can not exit at the Rafah crossing is not on Hamas, and how any of this information demonstrates that "the US has all but washed its hands of the American citizens in Gaza."

Too slow.

[grumbler]

Also the vids of ordinary Palestinians cheering in the streets as the naked bodies off dead Israeli women were paraded around by Hamas makes it hard to find the proper sympathy for the greater number of Palestinians who did no such thing.  Hamas's main goal is to kill Israelis but their secondary goal is to try to ensure the maximum death count for the Palestinian civilians in Gaza. Personal survival seems to take third place, and the survival of civilians no place at all.

[viper37]

Also the vids of ordinary Palestinians cheering in the streets as the naked bodies off dead Israeli women were paraded around by Hamas makes it hard to find the proper sympathy for the greater number of Palestinians who did no such thing. 

Kinda happen on both sides.
And soldiers cheering after shooting an unarmed man.

Avigdor Lieberman, Israel's hard-line defense minister, said, "The sniper deserves a commendation while the one filming deserves condemnation." He added that it was "understandable" that soldiers at the front sometimes had to let off steam.

So, we can deduce that shooting unarmed civilians who pose no threat is jut letting off steam for the IDF, according to the former defense minister of the Netanyahu government.  His only objection was that it was made public.


Hamas, on the opposite, likes to shoot that kind of videos, it reinforces the idea in the Arab countries they have overwhelming support and lets recruits flock to them, incite other terrorists to commit atrocities like the recent Belgium attack.  For Israel, it makes them look bad and show the reality of the conflict, that the IDF is not just defending itself against brutal terrorists like Hamas militants.

[Threviel]

Nice of you to equate public cheer at parading dead civilian women at the back of trucks to public cheer to a police officer shooting a minor that allegedly went around and attacked with a knife. They are not the same, they are not kind of the same and they are not in any way what so ever similar.

[Zoupa]

I mean... they're not the exact same, but overall yes, they're pretty similar.

Do you know any Israelis? I'd guesstimate a good 30% would have absolutely no qualms genociding the entire Palestinian population. The casual racism is everywhere. I don't think it's surprising to see some cheer when a palestinian is gunned down.

[Admiral Yi]

They're not at all the same and I don't see how anyone can possibly see them as similar.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm talking only about the 14 year old.  I was paywalled on the NYT article so don't feel qualified to judge.