Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Sheilbh]

UK and US airstrikes on Yemen targeting the Houthis (not sure about this).

Also India expanding its naval presnece in the Arabian Sea to help protect shipping which is interesting (not least on just how the world is changing):
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/india-flexes-maritime-muscles-boosting-024135522.html

[Tamas]

Of course the Guardian called it a dangerous escalation. I just don't get this attitude. Yemenis attacking civilian shipping wasn't the dangerous escalation, the civilised world's response is? Is it because they consider brown people too inferior to have the concept of escalation or what?

Anyways, I do hope India joins in on the strikes. I fail the see the choice here. Reignite inflation in our countries and suffer the economic and perhaps more importantly political consequences lest some Iranian mercenaries die?

[Josquius]

I guess the question is what are these strikes accomplishing.
Have they actually found a base where they're storing a bunch of missiles and drones? Or as would be smarter of the Houthis are they keeping things really distributed and moving fast?

Interesting how this one has bitten the world in the arse. Just letting the Saudis do what they want in Yemen turns out to have been a bad idea. Who'd have thought.

[anti-semitic imagery deleted - Jacob]
Traditional anti-Zionism from groups that everyone agrees are far left.  Communist, Socialist, Anarchist, Far Left, "In some contexts where nuance is unimportant these words are interchangeable".

Is it not surprising so many of the Far-left are anti-semetic?  Look where they saying 50 years ago!

The far left were traditionally anti-semitic in the way everyone was anti-semitic, with a bit of typical confusion of Jews=Rich=Bad. Jews weren't much of a concern to them. It just wasn't something that really mattered much in their world view.

Anti-semitism was famously the core ideology of the biggest group of (far right) shit heads the world has ever seen. Playing a guessing game you'd get them with a simple clue of "Germans. Not big on the Jews".

I seriously don't know why you're so triggered about all this. Is it that you share views with the far right on this issue? - that does happen you know. The world isn't black and white even when talking about the worst of the worst.
 This isn't one of those cases IMO but broken clocks are right twice a day, albeit often for the wrong reasons. For instance I am totally aligned with Farage and co. on the need for voting reform in the UK.

[Threviel]

You have both met "quite a few Nazis"?

How and where?

My cousin went nazi growing up, we spent a lot of time together before and during that process. Lots of people from my countryside village went that way.

I had a friend meeting a nazi girl and going nazi in my early twenties. Last time I saw him was his birthday that I spent with a skinhead gang discussing how they hunted immigrants.

I had a colleague that was a nazi.

And I mean nazi, not slightly racist.

[garbon]

I guess the question is what are these strikes accomplishing.

Sure. If one's default stance out the gate is that air/missile strikes don't work.

[Sheilbh]

It is an escalation (and Iran has space to escalate too). And the Houthi-Iranian goals are to draw the Americans in and regionalise the conflict.

Practically I suspect the risk/challenge with Yemen is relatively limited strikes are likely to have a limited impact (but boost the Houthis and Iran domestically). The alternative is more intervention/bigger strikes but there is space for escalation (the Persian Gulf, Lebanon, Saudi) and a risk of the West getting bogged down - the Saudi/Gulf experience in the last decade is not encouraging.

And the alternative is doing not much which emboldens more attacks on shipping.

Not sure what the best option is.

[The Brain]

How is a missile response to a missile attack an escalation?

[Razgovory]

They aren't pleasant to look at but it is important.  The secretary of the UN said that Oct 7th didn't happen in a vacuum, so it's important to see the context that these things happen in.

We don't post blatantly racist images on languish.

It was anti-Zionism.  Anti-Zionism isn't Anti-Semitism. Or so I hear.

[Razgovory]

The far left were traditionally anti-semitic in the way everyone was anti-semitic, with a bit of typical confusion of Jews=Rich=Bad. Jews weren't much of a concern to them. It just wasn't something that really mattered much in their world view.

Anti-semitism was famously the core ideology of the biggest group of (far right) shit heads the world has ever seen. Playing a guessing game you'd get them with a simple clue of "Germans. Not big on the Jews".

I seriously don't know why you're so triggered about all this. Is it that you share views with the far right on this issue? - that does happen you know. The world isn't black and white even when talking about the worst of the worst.
 This isn't one of those cases IMO but broken clocks are right twice a day, albeit often for the wrong reasons. For instance I am totally aligned with Farage and co. on the need for voting reform in the UK.

Those images I posted were from the 1970's not the 1920's.

[Tamas]

How is a missile response to a missile attack an escalation?

It isn't. I don't understand the concept of returning fire classified as escalation. That's some real proper victim mentality.

[Grey Fox]

Of course the Guardian called it a dangerous escalation. I just don't get this attitude. Yemenis attacking civilian shipping wasn't the dangerous escalation, the civilised world's response is? Is it because they consider brown people too inferior to have the concept of escalation or what?

Anyways, I do hope India joins in on the strikes. I fail the see the choice here. Reignite inflation in our countries and suffer the economic and perhaps more importantly political consequences lest some Iranian mercenaries die?

Everything is an escalation. Only the status quo with nothing happening is not an escalation. The Guardian, nimby at home & nimby in the world.

[Tamas]

Of course the Guardian called it a dangerous escalation. I just don't get this attitude. Yemenis attacking civilian shipping wasn't the dangerous escalation, the civilised world's response is? Is it because they consider brown people too inferior to have the concept of escalation or what?

Anyways, I do hope India joins in on the strikes. I fail the see the choice here. Reignite inflation in our countries and suffer the economic and perhaps more importantly political consequences lest some Iranian mercenaries die?

Everything is an escalation. Only the status quo with nothing happening is not an escalation. The Guardian, nimby at home & nimby in the world.

Here is a front page opinion piece to help you understand:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/yemen-houthi-militia-israel-gaza-red-sea

By bombing Yemen, the west risks repeating its own mistakes
Mohamad Bazzi
Instead of retaliating against the Houthi militia, the US and its allies should be pressing Israel to end its invasion of Gaza and accept a ceasefire

The appropriate state response to violence is to do what the aggressor demands, apparently. Assuming the aggressor is Muslim, anyways.

[Josquius]

Of course the Guardian called it a dangerous escalation. I just don't get this attitude. Yemenis attacking civilian shipping wasn't the dangerous escalation, the civilised world's response is? Is it because they consider brown people too inferior to have the concept of escalation or what?

Anyways, I do hope India joins in on the strikes. I fail the see the choice here. Reignite inflation in our countries and suffer the economic and perhaps more importantly political consequences lest some Iranian mercenaries die?

Everything is an escalation. Only the status quo with nothing happening is not an escalation. The Guardian, nimby at home & nimby in the world.

Here is a front page opinion piece to help you understand:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/yemen-houthi-militia-israel-gaza-red-sea

By bombing Yemen, the west risks repeating its own mistakes
Mohamad Bazzi
Instead of retaliating against the Houthi militia, the US and its allies should be pressing Israel to end its invasion of Gaza and accept a ceasefire

The appropriate state response to violence is to do what the aggressor demands, apparently. Assuming the aggressor is Muslim, anyways.

Except violence in the region is exactly what Iran wants?
The Houthis and Hamas acted with their encouragement at the very least.

[Tamas]

Of course the Guardian called it a dangerous escalation. I just don't get this attitude. Yemenis attacking civilian shipping wasn't the dangerous escalation, the civilised world's response is? Is it because they consider brown people too inferior to have the concept of escalation or what?

Anyways, I do hope India joins in on the strikes. I fail the see the choice here. Reignite inflation in our countries and suffer the economic and perhaps more importantly political consequences lest some Iranian mercenaries die?

Everything is an escalation. Only the status quo with nothing happening is not an escalation. The Guardian, nimby at home & nimby in the world.

Here is a front page opinion piece to help you understand:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/yemen-houthi-militia-israel-gaza-red-sea

By bombing Yemen, the west risks repeating its own mistakes
Mohamad Bazzi
Instead of retaliating against the Houthi militia, the US and its allies should be pressing Israel to end its invasion of Gaza and accept a ceasefire

The appropriate state response to violence is to do what the aggressor demands, apparently. Assuming the aggressor is Muslim, anyways.

Except violence in the region is exactly what Iran wants?
The Houthis and Hamas acted with their encouragement at the very least.

The way I see it there are two basic options:
1. do nothing - Iran gets the destabilisation and damage it wants by causing economic and thus political damages for its perceived rivals. Succeed or fail, there's no risk or high cost for Iran and its allies.

2. return fire - Iran may or may not get the destabilisation and damage it wants via triggering further escalation in the region. Succeed or fail, there's significant risk and cost for Iran and its allies.

It's a no-brainer. The only guaranteed way for us to lose is to not hit back.

[Josquius]

The way I see it there are two basic options:
1. do nothing - Iran gets the destabilisation and damage it wants by causing economic and thus political damages for its perceived rivals. Succeed or fail, there's no risk or high cost for Iran and its allies.

2. return fire - Iran may or may not get the destabilisation and damage it wants via triggering further escalation in the region. Succeed or fail, there's significant risk and cost for Iran and its allies.

It's a no-brainer. The only guaranteed way for us to lose is to not hit back.

Or

3. Figure out a way to stop the fighting.

The true answer lies with a mix of 2 and 3. Israel getting back to sanity is very possible which should cool things there but of course that's not happening overnight and in the meantime we have to defend ourselves.