Israel-Hamas War 2023

[viper37]

"I don't want to hear about this nonsense again. If you bother me with these things again, you will stand trial."

IDF elite intel officer warned about Hamas attacks, ignored - report

This is the response they received from him: "I don't want to hear about this nonsense again. If you bother me with these things again, you will stand trial."

A junior Israeli officer in the elite 8200 intelligence unit warned over Hamas's plan of a mass infiltration event and was ignored by her commanders, N12 reported on Thursday evening.

The officer claims to have warned for the past 12 months about a scenario that involves a mass intrusion event by Hamas, foreshadowing what occurred on October 7.

She turned to her commanders, but they did nothing. "You are imagining it," her commanders were quoted by N12 as telling her.

Last week, Channel 12's Weekend News program published new testimonies of female observers who served near the Gaza border.

In the testimonies of the observers, they tell how for months they warned repeatedly about changes they see in the field, which require special attention and raising red flags.




According to them, they told their commanders that there were training sessions, anomalies, and preparations near the border.

Among other things, they described how more and more people who had never visited this area suddenly come to it, how farmers who used to come day after day to work the fields suddenly don't come to the place and are replaced by others, and above all they recognize another feature, one that rang all the bells.

Those female observers felt that they were not being listened to and that what they were seeing was not being counted.

There were those who decided to alert one of the senior commanders in the sector, and this is the response they received from him: "I don't want to hear about this nonsense again. If you bother me with these things again, you will stand trial."

The IDF spokesman's response to the case: "These days, the IDF is working and fighting the murderous terrorist organization Hamas in the Gaza Strip. All commanders and soldiers are focused on this mission only, to complete the goals of the war. After the end of the war, a detailed and in-depth investigation will be conducted on the matter to clarify the details to the end."

I'm wondering if there hasn't been a politicization of the army and the intelligence agencies under such a long time of the Netanyahy government.  16 years or near continuous government by right wing nuts, with religious fanatics having their say must have left marks.  Female officers not being taken seriously about credible threats of Hamas infiltration would be a signe of their religious contempt for women.  Or is it simply that this government had its head so far up its ass about Hamas being an asset that no one anywhere wanted to hear anything about the terrorists being a real threat anymore, including the morons put in charge to watch over them?

Fucking incompetence at all level.

[viper37]

Re: polling - here's the complete data set of the poll discussed a little earlier in the thread.

Also worth noting is that prior to the current conflagration, Gazan had a low level of trust in the Hamas government with about 70% of respondents answring "not a lot" (~25%) or "none at all" (~45%) in when answering the question about how much faith they had in Hamas.

So Hamas became a lot more popular with Gazans after it slaughtered Israeli babies? 

Again:
Hamas denies it killed children in fight with Israel

I think many Palestinians, even among those who dislike them or have low confidence in them, are inclined to believe this kind of statements over what Israel and western medias will say.  No matter the amount of evidence we show them, it's likely all lies designed to justify Israel's actions.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Re: polling - here's the complete data set of the poll discussed a little earlier in the thread.

Also worth noting is that prior to the current conflagration, Gazan had a low level of trust in the Hamas government with about 70% of respondents answring "not a lot" (~25%) or "none at all" (~45%) in when answering the question about how much faith they had in Hamas.

So Hamas became a lot more popular with Gazans after it slaughtered Israeli babies?   

Kind of what happens when you get bombed. No doubt the reaction also played into hamas' plans

If on the other hand the israelis led themselves be slaughtered Hamas would also become more popular...

[Josquius]

Re: polling - here's the complete data set of the poll discussed a little earlier in the thread.

Also worth noting is that prior to the current conflagration, Gazan had a low level of trust in the Hamas government with about 70% of respondents answring "not a lot" (~25%) or "none at all" (~45%) in when answering the question about how much faith they had in Hamas.

So Hamas became a lot more popular with Gazans after it slaughtered Israeli babies?   

Kind of what happens when you get bombed. No doubt the reaction also played into hamas' plans

Yes. It's interesting how much this talk has been swept away. But when the attacks first happened there was a lot of talk about what the hell Hamas were thinking and what they hoped to accomplish.

The best theory I read was that they saw Israel creeping towards reproachment with their neighbours and a possible final deal inching closer...and they had to make sure it was them holding a dominant position over Palestinians as this came.

[crazy canuck]

Yes. I do think there's a definite support your side at war even if they're shit bags factor.
See the American support our troops hysteria post 9-11 for instance.

And more to the point the unity government in Israel propping up Bibi.

[Admiral Yi]

Israeli spokesdude on BBC via NPR: 1 more day of cease fire for each 10 hostages released. 

"Destruction of terrorist infrastructure" is new negotiating position.  Different than destruction of Hamas.

[viper37]

Israel's Communications Minister Threatens Haaretz, Suggests Penalizing Its Gaza War Coverage

Israel's Communications Minister Shlomo Karhi submitted a proposal to take action against Haaretz by ending the publication of government notices in Haaretz. Karhi, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin 

Netanyahu's Likud party, said the newspaper was "sabotaging Israel in wartime" and was an "inflammatory mouthpiece for Israel's enemies."

The proposal, which was submitted without being vetted by the ministry's legal adviser, would immediately halt any payments to Haaretz from any state entity within his purview.

[...]


I'm getting serious Russia vibes here. 

[Valmy]

You should. Netanyahu and his thugs want an Putin/Orban type state. They have been trying to destroy the judiciary and free press for awhile.

[Tamas]

There was a point raised on a podcast and I am wondering if you better informed peeps agree with it. Namely, that the relative silence of the Arab streets is very noticeable. I think they may have a point. Apart from the very early days (and even then only mostly by Palestinians elsewhere), it seems like we have not had the usual pictures of outraged protests across the Arab world, let alone the larger Muslim world - except for some protests in Turkey I think, and of course the London ones which seem to be by far the largest worldwide.

Has Muslim exhaustion re. Palestine set in? I think it has become obvious the leaders of Arab countries would rather strike deals with Israel, and it seems they are facing less popular pressure against this than in previous decades.

[The Minsky Moment]

"Destruction of terrorist infrastructure" is new negotiating position.  Different than destruction of Hamas.

That's a very elastic concept.
Most obvious inference is that the government has no plan and is improvising.

[viper37]

Some hostages have been freed yesterday and today.
Hamas complaining Israel is not appreciative enough of their gesture.  I supposed Bibi could have sent a personalized thank you note along the aid trucks...

I hope the truce last long enough for these hostages to be rescued.

[Admiral Yi]

That's a very elastic concept.
Most obvious inference is that the government has no plan and is improvising.

I think it's significant.  Blow up all the tunnels, confiscate all the weapons, get all the hostages out, go home and declare victory.  Very different than killing or capturing every member of Hamas.

[viper37]

Very different than killing or capturing every member of Hamas.

Unless the government of Israel has a membership list with full names and pictures, it's an unrealistic objective to achieve.

[Sheilbh]

That's a very elastic concept.
Most obvious inference is that the government has no plan and is improvising.

Sisi and the US are publicly rejecting the idea of population transfer or "forced expulsion" of the population of Gaza, or redrawing its borders - again. I think by my count that's the third or fourth time they've made public statements on this.

My suspicion is that's what the government is pushing for and the improvisation is trying to find an alternative.

[Iormlund]

Expulsion never made sense. Where would they go?