2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

[grumbler]

what if the issue people have with the (far) left isn't the 'woke'/'progressiveness' explicitly but the way that part of  the political spectrum goes about everything... their arrogance in thinking that they are the sole arbiters of what is good and proper and that everyone who doesn't fully agree must surely be somekind of scum.

Or as a former politician-and-journalist recently said:
(had to run it through google translate, but it conveys his thought well enough)
"Those who see themselves as the unique guardians of the good have great difficulty in elegantly disagreeing with dissenters. Because thinking differently here can only mean that the dissenter does not have the best interests of the world, the class, the people at heart, right?"

It's an attitude that's very like the one the priests had only a few decades ago when they claimed to be the sole guardians of morality. A priesthood with a wagging finger and an penchant for excommunication (better than blowing up or stabbing to death as is popular with other cults).
The result being that the people claiming to stand for diversity, inclusion, tolerance... actually end up being the opposite of that.

just a thought, maybe sufficient to add some additional perspective

There's no doubt that a segment of the left, just like the right, calls themselves the only moral people and crusade to smite those not committed to the cause.  The problem becomes that the moderate right no longer has any problems with their politicians appealing to that lunatic fringe, while the moderate left has no tolerance for, and even alienates, their lunatic fringe.

The left needs to explore what are the reasonable accommodations needed to keep their loons onboard, without giving the loons the power to alienate the moderate wing and independent voters.

[Valmy]

Besides, I clearly have no idea what the Democrats need to do to turn this thing around.

To be honest, I don't have many ideas either.  I get the point that a lot of people are making, that what I'm often criticizing is the left, not the Democratic Party.  It's a valid point.  However, I always found "don't bring problems, bring solutions" saying stupid; it's fine to describe the problems if you think you've identified them, maybe there is a person out there who's bad at identifying problems but good at finding solutions, so you still helped things along.

One very vague solution is that we really need to stress the importance of having good politicians.  Being a politician shouldn't be a dirty word.  We need shrewd political operators, not people who tick the boxes.  Our bastards even, if that's what it takes.  Being a bad politician is a sin when your opponents are trying to destroy democracy.  LBJ wasn't a nice person, but he got a lot of nice things done in his own way.  It's a better outcome than what we got with Obama.

I don't disagree. Sometimes the Democrats do dirty tricks and they work. But it isn't necessarily part of the overall strategy.

Anyway thank you for your thoughts.

[Josquius]

called?)

The word has migrated to occupy the space once filled by politically correct.  Political correctness is the belief that the world is divided into oppressed minorities and oppressors.  That any grievance claimed by a member of an oppressed minority is by definition legitimate and must be accomodated.  That anyone opposing that grievance is by definition evil.

.

Which is pretty ironic considering trumps whole thing is going on about the elites, playing the victim card for how everyone is against "real Americans" and him, anyone with even somewhat divergent views is all manner of awful things,white working class men should be  listened to even when they're talking bollocks, and so on.

[Admiral Yi]

Which is pretty ironic considering trumps whole thing is going on about the elites, playing the victim card for how everyone is against "real Americans" and him, anyone with even somewhat divergent views is all manner of awful things,white working class men should be  listened to even when they're talking bollocks, and so on.

I don't think it's ironic at all.  I think it's a very common, human nature based instinct to respond to accusations of evil by saying no, you're evil.

[DGuller]

Nate Silver's blog post has a rather alarming plot of voting patterns by every NYC borough: https://www.natesilver.net/p/the-story-of-trumps-win-was-foretold.  Staten Island has always been an outlier, it's a really a suburb in New Jersey, but 40% of Queens going for Trump?  I'm not sure I understand what's going on, but I hope someone with influence does.

[crazy canuck]

The left needs to explore what are the reasonable accommodations needed to keep their loons onboard, without giving the loons the power to alienate the moderate wing and independent voters.

I am now much less sure that is possible.

[The Minsky Moment]

Trump was the first incumbent President to lose re-election since Carter, who faced far more brutal economic conditions. By the book, he should have won that election handily.

Bush 41

FFS how did I forget that?
He had a bad recession too although things started to perk up right before the election.  There was also the weird Perot factor.

[jimmy olsen]

Buyer's remorse for these guys is going to be instantaneous

https://x.com/ask_aubry/status/1854337207185580201

So the Trump administration after getting the Latino vote is going to go after those have Naturalized Citizenship.

Leopards Eating Face

[HVC]

"Oh no! The leopard ate MY face. Who could see that happening?!"

[Syt]

Denaturalization and remigration was a major topic of a secretive meeting between far rightwingers from Austria and Germany this or last year.

[Syt]

Part of me kinda wished my family would come under scrutiny, but even if they did they'd probably rationalize it away as being the fault of the illegals making this necessary in the first place.

[Solmyr]

Not really, no. Just people who complain about "woke".

Ok, I get it, it's hard for you to take me seriously.  Try your best.  Do you really think that you come off looking smart when you imply that I'm not?

Look, if you want to complain about dirty homeless people tarnishing your beautiful subway, then do that. Don't call it "woke" because that has nothing to do with woke and simply erases any meaning of that word.

When you put it that way, no, it has nothing to do with woke.  But why would you put it that way, why misrepresent what I said so severely?

Because woke describes anything from police not solving petty crimes to being able to create a trans character in a video game. It's a word with no meaning anymore and using it in the way you do does not help your argument at all.

[Solmyr]

What set of ideas? Maybe it's well defined in the US but in the UK it is used for any kind of complaints by the right.

I'm guessing it's not used for complaints about taxes being too high or highways being built too close to their houses.

Yes it absolutely is. Taxes being too high is communism, so woke.

[Josquius]

Something I've often thought would be good to do but have never had the willpower to get on with it is collect a list of every article I come across decrying something as woke.
As I've seen all sorts. Two that I remember-
Gardens- https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/gardener-faces-citation-her-woke-200000651.html
Feathered dinosaurs which do more than fight all the time-  https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/18257993/david-attenborough-woke-t-rex/

Which is pretty ironic considering trumps whole thing is going on about the elites, playing the victim card for how everyone is against "real Americans" and him, anyone with even somewhat divergent views is all manner of awful things,white working class men should be  listened to even when they're talking bollocks, and so on.

I don't think it's ironic at all.  I think it's a very common, human nature based instinct to respond to accusations of evil by saying no, you're evil.

He's the one who started this however. The deplorable comment came after mountains of hate.

Buyer's remorse for these guys is going to be instantaneous

https://x.com/ask_aubry/status/1854337207185580201

So the Trump administration after getting the Latino vote is going to go after those have Naturalized Citizenship.

Leopards Eating Face

My GF's dad's cousin ('s best friend's dog's vet's sister's boyfriend's....) is a Swiss guy who emigrated to the US many decades ago (Florida ).  He's married to a woman who immigrated from El Salvador.
They're both big Trumpies.
The leopards will be interesting to see. Wonder whether they'll show more of a taste for one of them?

[Grey Fox]

It seems that more and more anything that can be seen has a benevolent will be labaled has woke by the Trump mob.