2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

[PJL]

I think Valmy mentioned this and was spot on: the far right and people who listen to their media inhabit a reality entirely different to the rest of us.

Trouble is, if 40% of the people believe in it, are they really far right? Now there's a troubling thought...

[Josquius]

I think Valmy mentioned this and was spot on: the far right and people who listen to their media inhabit a reality entirely different to the rest of us.

Trouble is, if 40% of the people believe in it, are they really far right? Now there's a troubling thought...

Yes.
The nazis didn't become centrists when they took power.

Though I do think /hope that's an over estimate.
There'll always be nutters and of course they support trump.
The weird thing is those who otherwise seem sane and decent but do so.

[crazy canuck]

If Neil was still here he would probably ban BB for disrespecting Nixon by suggesting the Southern shift toward the Republicans occurred in the 80s.

BB - read up on the Southern Strategy.

Again you don't seem to think much of me.  I'm quite familiar with the "southern strategy" as an amateur political junkie.

In hindsight we can see that it was starting to have effects, but it certainly did not give Nixon either of his victories.  In 1968 much of the south went for George Wallace, and to the extent Nixon won any states it was through vote-splitting between Nixon, Humphrey and Wallace.  But yes it was starting to bear fruit.

1972 Nixon swept the South - but then again he swept the country.  I had forgotten what a landslide it was - McGovern only won Mass. and DC, with Nixon taking everything else.

But I specifically brought up 1976 - where Carter swept the south. It turned out to be a last gasp of the Democratic south, but it still happened.

It was in 1980 where the switch was firmly switched, and where the south has been a GOP stronghold at the Presidential level, and then into the 90s at the other levels as well.

I didn't invent the term "Reagan democrats" you know.

Or you could have just said, "Hey yeah, I got it wrong when I said it started in the 80s"

[Grey Fox]

I wonder why the people that believe in conspiracies think that their government is keeping secret a highly competent division dedicated to, of all things, controlling them.

[Razgovory]

I think Valmy mentioned this and was spot on: the far right and people who listen to their media inhabit a reality entirely different to the rest of us.

Yes, just today I saw someone on Facebook say this

this is the worst the country has been with the cost of everything, the world is on fire, and the hate from people is incredible. You're not going to convince many people that we're better under this administration than we were under Trump. You can hate Trump all you want( he's not that likable honestly) but the whole world was in better shape.

Source is some guy that was friends with Berkut on Facebook.

[Barrister]

Or you could have just said, "Hey yeah, I got it wrong when I said it started in the 80s"

Bye!

[The Minsky Moment]

Real (inflation adjusted) income and GDP is much higher now than during the Trump administration. Unemployment is much lower. It's completely insane to say the economy is worse now than under Trump.  The economy is much stronger now.

Somehow Trump has gotten a pass for all the economic damage under COVID, but Biden/Harris is getting all the blame for the price impact of emerging from COVID.  Either both should take the blame or both get the pass.  If the former, a price level bump is much less a problem than mass unemployment.  Inflation adjusted GDP and investment is much higher now.   

The economic stuff is just part of the bizarre amnesia about the complete and utter shitshow that was the Trump administration, with the decades long alliance system that undergirds American power being pushed to the brink.  It won't survive a second term with the likes of Kash Patel and Michael Flynn running the show.  America was insulated from the worst fallout because the grownups ran things for the first 2-3 years while DJT read his shopping catalogs in the security briefings, and then Trump lost power before the crazies he started appointing at the end could do permanent damage.   Now the curtain will open on the nutbars from Day 1.

[Valmy]

I think Valmy mentioned this and was spot on: the far right and people who listen to their media inhabit a reality entirely different to the rest of us.

Yes, just today I saw someone on Facebook say this

this is the worst the country has been with the cost of everything, the world is on fire, and the hate from people is incredible. You're not going to convince many people that we're better under this administration than we were under Trump. You can hate Trump all you want( he's not that likable honestly) but the whole world was in better shape.

Source is some guy that was friends with Berkut on Facebook.

Yeah well they said the same thing in 2016, that the economy was destroyed and everything was horrible.

And then the next day after Trump was sworn in everything was great. All the positives about the economy we had been saying, and they insisted were lies were suddenly true.

And they will pull the same trick if they win this year.

Anyway as if some magical beliefs that the President has complete and total control over the economy is a good enough excuse to put a piece of shit who tried to coup the government in charge of the country.

[Valmy]

But anyway that is my point. To them Trump brought everybody together and extinguished hate, he was an enlightened peacemaker abroad, and a wizard with the economy. But all of that is ridiculous propaganda. They just live in a different world than I do.

And I cannot help but debunk their stupid claims I guess just to remind myself of how reality works.

[Valmy]

If Neil was still here he would probably ban BB for disrespecting Nixon by suggesting the Southern shift toward the Republicans occurred in the 80s.

BB - read up on the Southern Strategy.

Again you don't seem to think much of me.  I'm quite familiar with the "southern strategy" as an amateur political junkie.

In hindsight we can see that it was starting to have effects, but it certainly did not give Nixon either of his victories.  In 1968 much of the south went for George Wallace, and to the extent Nixon won any states it was through vote-splitting between Nixon, Humphrey and Wallace.  But yes it was starting to bear fruit.

1972 Nixon swept the South - but then again he swept the country.  I had forgotten what a landslide it was - McGovern only won Mass. and DC, with Nixon taking everything else.

But I specifically brought up 1976 - where Carter swept the south. It turned out to be a last gasp of the Democratic south, but it still happened.

It was in 1980 where the switch was firmly switched, and where the south has been a GOP stronghold at the Presidential level, and then into the 90s at the other levels as well.

I didn't invent the term "Reagan democrats" you know.

Check out the 1964 election. Virtually the entire country went for LBJ except the South (and Arizona). When the South alone (and Arizona) goes Republican that says something. And Reagan Democrats existed in many places besides just the South, as can be seen in the 1984 election. And as I said largely referred to 1960s hippies who went right wing not bubbas, or at least that was my memory of that.

Anyway as per my other reply you are not alone in thinking that the shift was more recent than it actually was.

Bye!

If he upsets you just ignore him dude.

[crazy canuck]

Or you could have just said, "Hey yeah, I got it wrong when I said it started in the 80s"

Bye!

Go back to your little place where you are safe from anybody criticizing you.  You know the place where you exercise your elbows out freedom of expression with no risk to yourself.

[Admiral Yi]

The irony is that immigration really is a significant issue, with the problem being that there are insufficient amounts of legal immigration and a long-term trend of demographic stagnation.  The Right acknowledges the latter problem but their solution is pursuing Gilead-lite.

This is the first time I've heard that we have insufficient legal immigration.  IIRC we hand out 400,000 green card lottery spots a year.  How is that not sufficient?

[crazy canuck]

The irony is that immigration really is a significant issue, with the problem being that there are insufficient amounts of legal immigration and a long-term trend of demographic stagnation.  The Right acknowledges the latter problem but their solution is pursuing Gilead-lite.

This is the first time I've heard that we have insufficient legal immigration.  IIRC we hand out 400,000 green card lottery spots a year.  How is that not sufficient?

It been big news for a while.

I picked a publication you might accept as having accurate reporting

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2023/08/23/us-risks-decline-and-stagnation-without-immigrants/

[Tamas]

The irony is that immigration really is a significant issue, with the problem being that there are insufficient amounts of legal immigration and a long-term trend of demographic stagnation.  The Right acknowledges the latter problem but their solution is pursuing Gilead-lite.

This is the first time I've heard that we have insufficient legal immigration.  IIRC we hand out 400,000 green card lottery spots a year.  How is that not sufficient?

What's that, a bit over 0.1% of the population?

[Valmy]

The irony is that immigration really is a significant issue, with the problem being that there are insufficient amounts of legal immigration and a long-term trend of demographic stagnation.  The Right acknowledges the latter problem but their solution is pursuing Gilead-lite.

This is the first time I've heard that we have insufficient legal immigration.  IIRC we hand out 400,000 green card lottery spots a year.  How is that not sufficient?

What's that, a bit over 0.1% of the population?

And they are notoriously hard to get.