2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

[jimmy olsen]

I thought this ad was pretty good

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1770848104310259749

[Admiral Yi]

Sanders is not universalist when it comes to big corporations.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think people exaggerate the importance of wealth inequality because our political / historical narratives around wealth inequality come from the gilded age, when poor people were living in tenements or being put in work houses in the UK etc whilst the rich were living like Croesus.

I think there is a difference in how well economic socialist / populist arguments auto-win the working class / poor for you when their objective conditions are a lot better. Misery opens one up more to positions that are seen as radical, and America is fundamentally a middle class country at this point. Middle class people have always been less open to radical thinking.

[Razgovory]

It is a weird situation and you see it more than in just the US. Increasingly the poor are the ones voting for policies that actively hurt them.

Increased cost of living and frozen wages that will really kill those around minimum wage? I mean that's bad and all... But brown people!

The gender stuff is killing us.  Our black and brown people don't care for it.

Perhaps part of it.
But then is the answer to do as the (political, non racial) browns want and have a decent social system with otherwise reactionary social attitudes?
I do agree the left should stop falling for the rights trap of making identity politics such a critical issue.
But throwing trans people under the bus is completely betraying our fundamental values and just isn't acceptable.
Solidarity and egality for all, not just regular old straight cis white folks.

So, I looked up black attitudes to LGBT and about a third are opposed to it.  That's not great, but not as bad as I thought.  So I may have been wrong here.

[Razgovory]

If you can hear me from under the bus that someone wants to throw people like me under, is there any evidence of the claim that "gender stuff is killing us"? Everything I've seen and read seems to suggest that it remains a policy loser for the Republicans and simply red meat to feed to the very red base.

Yeah, I retract that.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I would tend to agree LGBTQ issues are actually often a loser for the GOP. It is red meat--it froths up their base, but it does nothing to expand their electorate. There is decent evidence that the GOP was able to weaponize the gay marriage issue in the 2004 election cycle in a strategic way, society was in a different place 20 years ago and it appears in at least some states, it was a winner for the GOP>

I think most anti-LGBTQ stuff has diminished in effectiveness since that time.

[crazy canuck]

Most of you are missing the reason why non college educated people are voting for the far right.  The left does not give them any hope for the future.

Maybe. But I don't know what that means exactly. I have certainly never faulted the right from not having strong political skills and messaging, but that doesn't necessarily mean the left gives nothing at all or is failing. It just means the opposition is really good and requires tremendous effort to be successful.

But far right talking points are almost entirely panic mongering and rage inducing. I am not sure a message of hope for a bright future is going to resonate against that.

I really like the post about this fair thing a day or two before I posted that post. I don't really feel like repeating it.

[Josquius]

Most of you are missing the reason why non college educated people are voting for the far right.  The left does not give them any hope for the future.

Maybe. But I don't know what that means exactly. I have certainly never faulted the right from not having strong political skills and messaging, but that doesn't necessarily mean the left gives nothing at all or is failing. It just means the opposition is really good and requires tremendous effort to be successful.

But far right talking points are almost entirely panic mongering and rage inducing. I am not sure a message of hope for a bright future is going to resonate against that.

Its basic psychology.
System 1 and system 2 thinking.
The right taps into system 1 thinking. This is your fast emotional reaction. Fear and the threat of losing something really tap into something fundamental in how humans work.
The left meanwhile goes with system 2 thinking.  More deliberate drawn-out logical thinking. It takes active effort to engage this part of your brain. This is especially difficult when so much has already been established in system 1.

See also marketing techniques. And scammers.

[CountDeMoney]

You fuckers need to stop all your esoteric navelgazing and come to the realization that this ignorant knuckledragging mouthbreather from Queens is never going to see a single verdict of consequence in any criminal court, and it is all going away forever once he becomes Chief Bwana for Life
 

He can't post a bond for the fraud appeal, so he's about to have a real bad time.

Flush out your headgear, fetus bag.  This means nothing.
He's been bankrupt five times before.  And yet, look at him now.
 
What? Seize bank accounts?  They'll all be empty by the time the order is delivered to the banks.
Seize buildings?  Good luck with that, with all the crossover titles, contradictory values, and hundreds of LLCs, entire forests will be decimated before the judgement gets enforced.
Liens? LOL. Oh no, you have to pay if you sell?  So you don't sell, big deal. I've got neighbors with liens on their condos for years.

Real bad time, my black Irish ass.

NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS. YOU FUCKING MUTTS NEED TO WAKE UP TO THAT FACT. 

[Admiral Yi]

I'm certain something will happen.

You're a fucking mutt.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah, the sun will rise tomorrow. You're such a high roller.

[Admiral Yi]

You just said it wouldn't.

[The Minsky Moment]

It's not that complicated.

Example: The lease on 40 Wall Street is held by an LLC. Therefore the AG cannot simply seize the leasehold.  Instead, they get a charging order. The charging order means that the rent payable to the LLC on the subleases goes to the NYAG instead. They can get the money just not the management authority.  But they have effective management authority anyways because Engoron's order keeps Barbara Jones in place as supervisor for another three years. And if 40 Wall LLC is a single member LLC, the AG may also seek to break through the corporate veil, which they can do if the LLC is used to perpetrate a fraud.

This is not the first time a judgment has been entered against a business entity in the State of New York, where there are more than one entity and LLCs are used. The AG's office is not helpless; they deal with this kind of stuff all the time.

[The Minsky Moment]

Looking at the judgment again, 40 Wall Street LLC is a named defendant and a primary obligor on the judgment.  So the AG can proceed directly and foreclose, unless there is some restriction in the ground lease.

[Admiral Yi]

How will the Trump branding get treated?  If a building is seized, or just the cash flow, does the State of New York own the lettering on the front too?