Finland, Sweden + NATO

[Duque de Bragança]

Russia has put up posters in Moscow outside the Swedish embassy complaining about famous Swedish "Nazis" from history. Writers, film directors etc. Russia's propaganda game continues to be abysmal.

Do they mention Bergman?

[The Brain]

Russia has put up posters in Moscow outside the Swedish embassy complaining about famous Swedish "Nazis" from history. Writers, film directors etc. Russia's propaganda game continues to be abysmal.

Do they mention Bergman?

They do.

[Legbiter]

When Finland joins NATO what's Sweden going to do?

[Tamas]

Putin remains a master strategist.

You are just jealous that his masterly maneuvers forced NATO's hands to reveal and hasten their aggressive enveloping of Russia.

[Legbiter]

You are just jealous that his masterly maneuvers forced NATO's hands to reveal and hasten their aggressive enveloping of Russia.

Before the war this was the NATO border situation.



That's some major "encirclement" right there...

[Tamas]

You appear unaware of that completely baseless JPEG that has a world map showing NATO bases absolutely everywhere in the world around Russia, which has been a trusty aid of Russiapologists for the past decade or so.

[Legbiter]

You appear unaware of that completely baseless JPEG that has a world map showing NATO bases absolutely everywhere in the world around Russia, which has been a trusty aid of Russiapologists for the past decade or so.

Yeah the vatniks are about to get a lot more expensive NATO border plus an implacable enemy right on their doorstep. Finally they'll have something to complain about. 

[The Brain]

When Finland joins NATO what's Sweden going to do?

Join NATO.

[Josquius]

When Finland joins NATO what's Sweden going to do?

Join NATO.

Probably.

Though the sensible thing to do seems to be hide behind Finland.

Or would that leave gotland too much of an even more important and tempting target.

[The Brain]

When Finland joins NATO what's Sweden going to do?

Join NATO.

Probably.

Though the sensible thing to do seems to be hide behind Finland.

Or would that leave gotland too much of an even more important and tempting target.

My impression is indeed that staying out would leave Gotland way too open to invasion.

[grumbler]

This would seem to be a good time to fast-track Georgia into NATO.  Just to blow the Russians' minds to bits.

[Duque de Bragança]

Russia has put up posters in Moscow outside the Swedish embassy complaining about famous Swedish "Nazis" from history. Writers, film directors etc. Russia's propaganda game continues to be abysmal.

Do they mention Bergman?

They do.

But not Dolph Lundgren? Good.

[Sheilbh]

Interesting - US and UK apparently offered defence assurances to Finland and Sweden while they were making applictions. But seems like Ben Wallace has slightly expanded that from a UK perspective (which sort of makes sense given JEF of NATO/non-NATO and EU/non-EU countries) in Helsinki today.

He said that in the event of an attack on Sweden or Finland - whether they're in NATO or not - the UK would "come to their defence". It's not quite as encompassing as NATO obligations and has perhaps always been there, but it feels worthwhile making the sub-text text at this point. From what I've read it looks like Labour are basically sympathetic on this too so there's consensus on it whoever's in power, which is nice. Obviously if they join NATO then it's far more direct.

[Tamas]

The one benefit of Johnson being a disgrace is that he and his party are super-eager to be involved in war things to keep voter attention on that.

[Sheilbh]

The one benefit of Johnson being a disgrace is that he and his party are super-eager to be involved in war things to keep voter attention on that.

Not voters - voters don't matter right now and are only paying a bit of attention. The only people who can remove Johnson are Tory MPs and they do care and are paying attention. Ben Wallace is, after all, probably the most plausible successor to Johnson (and Liz Truss in the FCDO is another).

But it's also helped by Labour being desperate to put clear red water between where they are now v when Corbyn was leader

I think the consensus around this (and Hong Kong, Ukraine etc) is really striking and interesting. I think basically after the understandable and justifiable post-Iraq isolation that the UK's position on lots of issues seems to have snapped back to a sort of active (little bit interventionist) liberalism. From my perspective it's not an unattractive position. That consensus might be Blair's biggest legacy, despite it also containing his biggest failures.