Have you ever asked for a pay rise?

[DGuller]

This would at best be horribly inefficient, and there is no problem that it solves.

At least in the US, I think employers capturing a greater share of employee productivity has been a big problem with big societal implications.

[Josquius]

Glassdoor has been pretty ground breaking in publishing salary bands. I know the HR world has been shook a fair bit by this being public info - previously they all just worked like a cartel comparing salaries with each other behind the scenes. They still do I believe but its less critical now.
The salary in my current job I got from taking a look at what the average is in London and taking a punt on saying I want north of that.

[Grey Fox]

Quebec Engineers under an organism they formed call Genium360 publish a Yearly Salary investigation.

https://www.genium360.ca/en-us/enquete-sur-la-remuneration/

(The member price is 100$)

[Zanza]

The solution to the negotiation imbalance is collective bargaining by unions.

[Zoupa]

The solution to the negotiation imbalance is collective bargaining by unions.

Agreed. It's what's led to the most advances in worker's compensation.

[garbon]

Who would publish these bands?

Employers.  You put up a job description for a position you're trying to fill, you put the the pay scale in it with actual numbers, and a narrow enough band so you don't just get around it with $0-$10,000,000 nonsense.  The job candidates know what they're applying for, and people already working for the employer can check what the new employees are going to get.  You can except executive and professional jobs, or something like that, or require a certain percentage of your jobs to have published pay scales.  Some states in the US are actually moving in that direction, and I think that's a great thing.

I absolutely hate the "competitive salary" in job adverts. It wastes everyone's time - and really only helps recruitment consultants. I've seen it both ways. I've appled for a job that was just not going to pay enough and had I know at stage one I wouldn't have applied, similarly I've seen applications from people whose last employer is Tesla who are used to an extremely high salary band that doesn't really work in the industry I'm in.

If employers were transparent in job adverts I think it'd be very helpful.

The transparent bands thing is standard in the public sector here and I think in really big companies like the banks.

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As a hiring manager I've often not been entirely aware of the exact amount we will consider going up to for the right person.

[Josquius]

The solution to the negotiation imbalance is collective bargaining by unions.

Agreed. It's what's led to the most advances in worker's compensation.

Tough to fit in the modern professional world of frequent job switches though.

[Tamas]

The way I see it, like with any negotiation/haggling, you have to be ready to walk away, or to be more precise, be appear ready to walk away, otherwise you are just going to lose. I am not good at bluffing and do not enjoy it either, so that leaves me with situations where I am, indeed, ready to walk away. That seldom happens with a job, and I suspect a lot of people are the same.

[crazy canuck]

The way I see it, like with any negotiation/haggling, you have to be ready to walk away, or to be more precise, be appear ready to walk away, otherwise you are just going to lose. I am not good at bluffing and do not enjoy it either, so that leaves me with situations where I am, indeed, ready to walk away. That seldom happens with a job, and I suspect a lot of people are the same.

I don't think that is true.  If the employer is motivated to keep you, they will pay you to accomplish that end.  If they are content to see you go you always have the option of staying.

To put it another way, I think the worst tactic is to say pay me X or I am gone.  Most would say, there is the door.

[Jacob]

The way I see it, like with any negotiation/haggling, you have to be ready to walk away, or to be more precise, be appear ready to walk away, otherwise you are just going to lose. I am not good at bluffing and do not enjoy it either, so that leaves me with situations where I am, indeed, ready to walk away. That seldom happens with a job, and I suspect a lot of people are the same.

You don't need to be ready to walk away. I used to have the same thinking, and yeah it felt very confrontational - or alternately like you're bluffing with nothing, which is stressful.

What's worked for me is this. Find some sort of argument - about the role and responsibilities, about comparative compensation, about what your needs are due to changes in your circumstances, changes in cost of living, about being recognized for your contributions [I'm doing X, Y, Z really well], about changes in the market place. Then figure out a number that would make you happy, and that seems fair to you (but focus on what would make you happy).

At some point - book a call or whatever - say something like "I'm happy working here. I like the challenges, I like the culture, I enjoy my colleagues... but to be honest, I'm not really satisfied with my compensation."

Let them respond. Hopefully they'll respond with some sort of interest. In either case, at some point you should lay out your arguments and - if asked or if you feel strongly about it - be ready to state your desired number.

Then leave them to think - but perhaps ask for some indication of time before you can expect to hear from them again, and leave it at that.

Based on their response you're either happy, you resign yourself to stay with increased dissatisfaction, or you realize it's time for you to update your resume and maybe start looking.

Basically, you're not going in with "give me this or I'll quit" you go in with "look, this would make me happy" and an implicit "if I'm not happy, maybe I'll get off my ass and do something about not being happy."

If they give you a good explanation for why they can't make you happy - or if it seems too much work to get another job - then you don't have to act on anything.

[Iormlund]

Same as GF. I'm surprised at the 52% that have never asked, wtf.

A lot of people are bad negotiators, and for things like that they're also up against trained negotiators who often have a lot more power in the relationship.  Being a good negotiator requires some tolerance for conflict. 

It's particularly tricky in this situation, because the person you'll be negotiating with is not a salesman that you didn't know yesterday and won't interact with tomorrow, but a person you need to maintain a good relationship with.  I think on a societal level it's a bad policy to require workers to have good negotiating skills to get their fair share, and negotiating is in general a wasteful zero-sum game.

It also heavily depends on culture.

In Spain I've never been at a company were raises are even an option. And I'm talking highly qualified engineering jobs.
Even for the most deserving of workers the answer is always a "the door is right there if you want out". You have to negotiate your salary when getting hired, because after that you won't get any meaningful raise. You have to jump ship to get that (but my company also pays significantly more than their local competitors, so nobody does that).

One of the culture shocks my brother had upon arriving to Germany was when his boss told him he (the boss) was concerned that my brother hadn't asked for a raise yet. He was worried my brother was planning to leave the company.

[11B4V]

No, I work for the US Govmit. They don't do that sort of thing.

[Berkut]

People ask me for raises all the damn time. It's so annoying!

[Tamas]

Jacob and CC, good points of course.

I didn't mean that one should always present an ultimatum. But, if your request is rejected - even if ever so politely - then why would you stay instead of starting a job hunt and bailing ASAP? Doesn't staying prove that you were wrong in your self valuation and they were right?

So, when I was perfectly happy to leave and in fact looking already I had no problem politely raising the matter of feeling like I had earned a promotion.

[crazy canuck]

Jacob and CC, good points of course.

I didn't mean that one should always present an ultimatum. But, if your request is rejected - even if ever so politely - then why would you stay instead of starting a job hunt and bailing ASAP? Doesn't staying prove that you were wrong in your self valuation and they were right?

So, when I was perfectly happy to leave and in fact looking already I had no problem politely raising the matter of feeling like I had earned a promotion.

Oh yeah, definitely.  If a person does not think they are being paid enough they should definitely start looking - it is always easier to get a job when you already have a job.  Same goes for working conditions other than pay.  Those are the things that actually causes more turnover.  Most people are willing to take a bit less in pay if everything else is good.  The sweet spot is of course great working conditions and pay.