Gripen or F-35 for Canada?

[grumbler]

Yeah, the number I spitballed for the F-22 included restarting the production line (the estimate was about $250m each for 72 five years ago.

[Razgovory]

The "modern, high threat SAM" part I don't see. Who is Canada going to attack in this scenario?

Whoever the US is attacking, because we've decided to support them in the war they're fighting... possibly for very good reasons. Whatever forces NATO is attacking in response to article 5 being invoked.

Personally, I think Canada should be able to contribute meaningfully if - say - Russia does something stupid in the Baltics or if China decides to start something with Taiwan - even if I hope that such scenarios never come to pass.

It is hard to imagine scenario where Canada goes to war and the US does not.  Unless the US leaves NATO.  I didn't think of that scenario before, but since it is possibility you might want the best plane you can get.

[Valmy]

Well the only time Canada has ever declared war on anybody was in 1939 right? Didn't have the US that time.

[Berkut]

Going to war and declaring war are not the same thing.

[crazy canuck]

Going to war and declaring war are not the same thing.

Canada didn't go to war in WWII?

[Jacob]

Going to war and declaring war are not the same thing.

Canada didn't go to war in WWII?

I think the point is that you may fight military actions - going to war - without declaring war.

[Jacob]

It is hard to imagine scenario where Canada goes to war and the US does not.  Unless the US leaves NATO.  I didn't think of that scenario before, but since it is possibility you might want the best plane you can get.

Canada occasionally puts our military in harms way in contexts where the US is not directly involved, usually under the auspices of the UN; Rwanda springs to mind.

But yeah, mostly we're pretty closely aligned with the US.

[crazy canuck]

Going to war and declaring war are not the same thing.

Canada didn't go to war in WWII?

I think the point is that you may fight military actions - going to war - without declaring war.

Canada did both.  Without the US - which is part of the answer to whether Canada would ever go to war without the US. 

In the modern age - given the political instability of our neighbours to the South, and Canada's commitment to NATO - that could well occur again.  Hence the requirement that the fighters work with both NATO and the US.

[grumbler]

In the modern age - given the political instability of our neighbours to the South, and Canada's commitment to NATO - that could well occur again.  Hence the requirement that the fighters work with both NATO and the US.

The US is in NATO.  If you can work with NATO, you can work with the US.  The two are not exclusive.

[Razgovory]

It is hard to imagine scenario where Canada goes to war and the US does not.  Unless the US leaves NATO.  I didn't think of that scenario before, but since it is possibility you might want the best plane you can get.

Canada occasionally puts our military in harms way in contexts where the US is not directly involved, usually under the auspices of the UN; Rwanda springs to mind.

But yeah, mostly we're pretty closely aligned with the US.

There is a always a possibility that Canada will want to go it alone for a political reason (such as Britain in the Falklands), but the chances of it are very unlikely. The possibility that he US will not be in NATO in the future are less unlikely.

[Jacob]

There is a always a possibility that Canada will want to go it alone for a political reason (such as Britain in the Falklands), but the chances of it are very unlikely. The possibility that he US will not be in NATO in the future are less unlikely.

For sure. One can imagine scenarios, but they're significantly less likely than ones where Canada enters the action alongside the US.

[Sheilbh]

There is a always a possibility that Canada will want to go it alone for a political reason (such as Britain in the Falklands), but the chances of it are very unlikely. The possibility that he US will not be in NATO in the future are less unlikely.

Or a risk of an intra-NATO Denmark-Canada conflict which the US will sit out, like it does when Greece and Turkey go at it

[alfred russel]

Jacob would be in an internment camp. 

[grumbler]

Jacob would be in an internment camp. 

  He is not an intern.

[viper37]

I liked this site's comparison, but I don't know how accurate the cost part is:
https://aviatia.net/saab-gripen-vs-f-35-lightning-ii/

That's not the Gripen Canada is looking to buy.  And the cost part is inaccurate for both the F-35 and the new Gripen F (though it may be for the Gripen D it is using in its comparison).

There's a reason that everyone who's had to make the choice between the two has chosen the F-35.  That reason may not apply to Canada, but no one has found the Gripen F to be cheaper in lifecycle costs than the F-35.

The current plans is for the Gripen E.  Gripen F is a future possibility, in a mixed fleet.