Trans-gender women set to set collegiate records in multiple swimming events

[Berkut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10310305/Female-competitor-speaks-saying-IMPOSSIBLE-beat-UPenn-transgender-swimmer-Lia-Thomas.html

Yeah. This, well....this is bullshit. This just does not make any sense.

Before transitioning, he was a good Ivy League swimmer. After transitioning, she is the best collegiate swimmer in the country in several different events, and is honestly just going to absolutely dominate the sport at the collegiate level.

In the three years Thomas competed on the men's team at UPenn Will recorded his best times in the 200 Free at 1:39:31, his 500 Free at 4:18:72, and his 1,650 at 14:54:76, according to Outkick.

The current NCAA women's records for those events are currently held by Olympic gold medalists. Missy Franklin holds the record for the 200 Free at 1:39:10. Katie Ledecky set the records for the 500 Free at 4:24:06 and the 1,650 Free at 15:03:31.
Since competing on the women's team this season, Thomas has swam the 200 Free at 1:41:93, the 500 Free at 4:34:06, and 1,650 Free at 15:59:71.

She is going to absolutely dominat Ive League swimming in those events, and will likely win National Championships in college.
Needless to say, there are a lot of people upset, including at least a couple on her own team. And needless to say, nobody is going to say anything publically, because to do so would absolutely destroy any career they might have in the future, because as we know, there isn't any such thing as left wing censoring of opinion.
I think this is patently unfair. I think her teammate summed it up well:

'While they say they care about all of us, our interests are in direct conflict with the interests of Lia in regards to fair competition and getting to compete. While we support Lia as a person to make decisions for her own life, you cannot make that decision and then come and impede on other people and their rights,' the source continued. 'Your right doesn't supersede everyone else's right.'
'I don't know what the solution is, but I know this is not it. Because people talk about how the trans community might've been marginalized before and this is supposed to be helping, but you can't help the trans community by marginalizing [biological] women.'
'I know no matter what, biological women will never be on an equal playing field with transgender females.'

There is a problem that needs to be solved. And cancelling anyone who brings it up is going to make it worse.
This is clearly not right, and insistence that it is fine is what fuels those who are against actual rational fairness in LBTQ rights.

[The Brain]

Is she a woman or not? Not a rhetorical question.

[garbon]

In the general turn of events seems like a very minor problem vs "needs to be solved."

[Tamas]

Is she a woman or not? Not a rhetorical question.

By whatever definition of "men" and "woman" that led to the establishment of men's and women's sport as separate, no "she" is not a woman.

[Tamas]

In the general turn of events seems like a very minor problem vs "needs to be solved."

Those female swimmers who spent a lot of effort through pretty much all their life with the understanding that they will have a realistic shot at competing, would surely be relieved you are willing to toss their aspirations out the window with such ease.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Is she a woman or not? Not a rhetorical question.

DNA will be pretty clear on that

[Tamas]

Is she a woman or not? Not a rhetorical question.

DNA will be pretty clear on that

But you forget that DNA is not clear in 0.00000000001% of cases so it shouldn't be used to determine sex of contestants or of anyone.

[The Brain]

Is she a woman or not? Not a rhetorical question.

By whatever definition of "men" and "woman" that led to the establishment of men's and women's sport as separate, no "she" is not a woman.

Definitions more than a century old might not always be very helpful today.

[The Brain]

In the general turn of events seems like a very minor problem vs "needs to be solved."

Those female swimmers who spent a lot of effort through pretty much all their life with the understanding that they will have a realistic shot at competing, would surely be relieved you are willing to toss their aspirations out the window with such ease.

My guess is that many women (and men) do sports for the love of the sport. Most women (and men) will never be Champ.

[Tamas]

Is she a woman or not? Not a rhetorical question.

By whatever definition of "men" and "woman" that led to the establishment of men's and women's sport as separate, no "she" is not a woman.

Definitions more than a century old might not always be very helpful today.

True. I think there are two realistic choices open:

Decouple the concepts of sex and gender. If you were born a male you compete with other born males and same for females. If you are the lucky 1 in a million when you are sort of both then you get free choice where to compete. And you can call yourself Shirley while running with the other males, nobody should care.

Or if that is way too easy and sensible for modern sensibilities, the other choice is to do away with sex-based separation. To be fair that would be true equality. It would be quite detrimental to the struggle against misogynism seeing how females would never get even close to the top of their chosen physical sports, but on the other hand it might actually help feminism by showing that females can compete perfectly fine with males in sports not reliant on sheer muscle mass.

[Tamas]

In the general turn of events seems like a very minor problem vs "needs to be solved."

Those female swimmers who spent a lot of effort through pretty much all their life with the understanding that they will have a realistic shot at competing, would surely be relieved you are willing to toss their aspirations out the window with such ease.

My guess is that many women (and men) do sports for the love of the sport. Most women (and men) will never be Champ.

As I said, they must be relieved their concerns are such a non-issue.

[The Brain]

In the general turn of events seems like a very minor problem vs "needs to be solved."

Those female swimmers who spent a lot of effort through pretty much all their life with the understanding that they will have a realistic shot at competing, would surely be relieved you are willing to toss their aspirations out the window with such ease.

My guess is that many women (and men) do sports for the love of the sport. Most women (and men) will never be Champ.

As I said, they must be relieved their concerns are such a non-issue.

Many people have all kinds of concerns about transpersons. Are some feelings more equal than others?

[Tamas]

Many people have all kinds of concerns about transpersons. Are some feelings more equal than others?

Are you saying that the feelings of these female athletes are of lesser value than the feelings of the male athlete competing against them?

[The Brain]

Many people have all kinds of concerns about transpersons. Are some feelings more equal than others?

Are you saying that the feelings of these female athletes are of lesser value than the feelings of the male athlete competing against them?

How would a male athlete compete in women's sports (beyond cheaters or by special publicity stunt crap)? Are you saying that transwomen aren't women, but men?

[Berkut]

In the general turn of events seems like a very minor problem vs "needs to be solved."

Those female swimmers who spent a lot of effort through pretty much all their life with the understanding that they will have a realistic shot at competing, would surely be relieved you are willing to toss their aspirations out the window with such ease.

My guess is that many women (and men) do sports for the love of the sport. Most women (and men) will never be Champ.

As I said, they must be relieved their concerns are such a non-issue.

Many people have all kinds of concerns about transpersons. Are some feelings more equal than others?

Of course. Some feelings are based on demonstrable harm being done for valid concerns, and others are whining about bullshit.

The fact that people cannot (or rather will not) discern between those two things is why the left loses in the court of public opinion as often as it does.

"I don't think transgender people should be allowed to marry because they are gross" is a stupid concern rightly ignored.

"I am worried about the integrity of female sports if biological men who transition are radically more physically capable then women - what should we do about that?" is a rather valid concern that ought to be considered rationally.

Trying to pretend like valid concerns are the same as invalid ones is as dishonest as anything the right does to pretend that their invalid concerns are somehow actually valid.