Victoria 3

[The Minsky Moment]

Looking at the latest posted tutorial video, Vic 3 is struggling to represent the American Second Party System.

The Democrats are supported by Evangelicals, which would surprise the Whiggish northern anti-slavery reverends and their followers. The Whigs are supported by "Rural Folk," an odd match for a party that drew its core support from provincial towns and cities.  It's especially off since Andrew Jackson seems to be the factional leader for the Rural Folk.

It appears the Vic political system is designed around a classical 19th century European model of conversative-reactionary parties of the rights vs liberal-radicals of the left, where landowners and clergy form the core support for the right and intelligentsia-industrialists for the liberal-left.  However, the American Whigs and Democrats don't fit properly into that left-right schema and evangelical protestants in antebellum America were often supporting what was then progressive causes. 

Vic 2 had a similar problem, making the protectionist, pro public investment Whigs into the "liberals" and the laissez faire, free trading Democrats into "conservatives"

[FunkMonk]

Looking at the latest posted tutorial video, Vic 3 is struggling to represent the American Second Party System.

The Democrats are supported by Evangelicals, which would surprise the Whiggish northern anti-slavery reverends and their followers. The Whigs are supported by "Rural Folk," an odd match for a party that drew its core support from provincial towns and cities.  It's especially off since Andrew Jackson seems to be the factional leader for the Rural Folk.

It appears the Vic political system is designed around a classical 19th century European model of conversative-reactionary parties of the rights vs liberal-radicals of the left, where landowners and clergy form the core support for the right and intelligentsia-industrialists for the liberal-left.  However, the American Whigs and Democrats don't fit properly into that left-right schema and evangelical protestants in antebellum America were often supporting what was then progressive causes. 

Vic 2 had a similar problem, making the protectionist, pro public investment Whigs into the "liberals" and the laissez faire, free trading Democrats into "conservatives"

This feels like something that will be addressed in a paid DLC in 2024.

 

[The Brain]

Grow Bored With The Country, 19.99.

[Tamas]

Do do you mean Interest Groups or political parties? The latter were not in the original design and were added only after the public outrcy when said original design was explained. So I wouldn't worry too much about the political parties as such, Interest Groups are the real things, the parties are a tacked-on needless thing for the simulation.

And the other question is if Whigs are an IG, then aren't they just a flavour name for a generic IG? Again, not ideal but acceptable .

[Habbaku]

Do do

hee hee

[The Minsky Moment]

Do do you mean Interest Groups or political parties? The latter were not in the original design and were added only after the public outrcy when said original design was explained. So I wouldn't worry too much about the political parties as such, Interest Groups are the real things, the parties are a tacked-on needless thing for the simulation.

And the other question is if Whigs are an IG, then aren't they just a flavour name for a generic IG? Again, not ideal but acceptable .

The problem is both with the IGs and the parties.

For IGs there is only one "Landowner" IG per country.  For the US at start, that group is the "Southern planters" which apparently means that big northern landowners are treated as pro-slavery plantation owners, thus causing the problem of northern states joining the Confederacy in the streams.

The Devout IG for the USA is Evangelicals.  But in the US evangelicals included northern firebrand abolitionists and pro-slavery Southern baptists.  The former, quite numerous, do not fit the IG core patriarchal ideology.

Industrialists are another problem area for the US because there was a sharp divergence between mill owners who were strongly protectionist, supported internal improvements and opposed slavery, on the one hand, and merchants/factors/shippers in the cotton trade who held diametrically opposed positions.

At the core of the problem is that the political divergences in antebellum America were based in significant part on sectional (regional) cleavages and the central issues of race and slavery, and the one-size-fits-all national IG system is not a good fit.

The parties are their own problem - in addition to what I said above there should not be a standalone "Free Trade Party" with 20+% of the vote in 1836 and if there was one it certainly shouldn't be supported by the mostly protectionist industrialists of that era- but much of the mismatches with Whigs and Dems stems from the implementation of IG in the US context.

FWIW I do think the system should work better for the third (post Civil War) party system, although it will be interesting to see if it can capture the odd Democrat alliance of northern labor, western small plot farmers and racist Southern elites.

[Barrister]

Sounds like the problem is just one of slavery, that cut through so many groups that absent such a big issue, might have otherwise worked together.

[Razgovory]

So, you guys gonna beta-test this one for me?

[Valmy]

So, you guys gonna beta-test this one for me?

My son will. He cannot wait. I get the daily update of how close we are to Victoria 3's release date.

I will let you know what he thinks about it.

[Tamas]

So, you guys gonna beta-test this one for me?

My son will. He cannot wait. I get the daily update of how close we are to Victoria 3's release date.

I will let you know what he thinks about it.

We are 5 days away.

[Valmy]

We are 5 days away.

Yes he let me know it was six days away when he got home from school yesterday 

[Tamas]

We are 5 days away.

Yes he let me know it was six days away when he got home from school yesterday 

 

I am embracing the hype with nostalgic infantilising enthusiasm. I am probably as excited as your son.

[crazy canuck]

We are 5 days away.

Yes he let me know it was six days away when he got home from school yesterday 

 

I am embracing the hype with nostalgic infantilising enthusiasm. I am probably as excited as your son.

Ditto!

[Habbaku]

I am very pleased that, despite our years of Paradox-bashing, we can all come together to get hyped about the occasional Paradox GS title.

[HVC]

I want it to be good, but i have a dreadful feeling that I'll be sad.