The EU thread

[Norgy]

Isn't Romania and Bulgaria now the countries with the biggest populations living in other EU countries?

They really are the EU's pity fucks.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I was in Bulgaria a couple of years back and found it slightly depressing; monochrome but one also had the feeling that all the lively Bulgarians had decamped to Western Europe. Very cheap, the economy is in a different gear to,for example, the UK or France. I thought at the time that it was a sort of system that Reform wanted here in Blighty, life in black and white and plenty of opportunities for corruption.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - I'm an Eastern Europe enjoyer generally. But not a massive fan of Bulgaria from my trips there for similar reasons.

I've mentioned the book a couple of times but the lively leaving is discussed a bit in The Light that Failed by Ivan Krastev (who is Bulgarian) and Stephen Holmes about the rise of illiberal democracy in CEE. And I think they basically argue that free movement is a bit of a double edged sword for CEE countries. For the individuals from those countries it's great but at a social level it can function as pressure valve or even arguably a strategy for some types of parties and governments that basically their opponents base (often young and well-educated) leave the country.

In Bulgaria it is a bit weird because it's the centre-right, pro-EU party that is very corrupt - I'm sure there are examples on the left, but it always seems to be EPP parties? The former PM's government is astonishingly corrupt - allegations of very close links between party leaders and organised crime, mass misappropriation of EU structural development funds (I think EU funded "infrastructure" projects were at one point bigger than the entire health budget and overwhelmingly went to the PM's friends to build limited actual infrastructure). Bulgaria was, according to Transparency International, the most corrupt country in the EU. Media freedom ratings collapsed to - at one point it had the lowest rating from Reporters Without Borders in the EU or among candidate countries (including Serbia, Bosnia and Turkiye). Despite this, the EPP family rallied around GERB and the PM - so VDL was still willing to campaign with him in the European Parliament elections in 2024. When he was investigated for money laundering and corruption, many in the EPP condemned it as against the rule of law. Despite all of this the party is still in the EPP family.

The party that won a majority is basically just a list for the former President who tried to fight GERB and Borisov over corruption. The Presidency is basically ceremonial but he caused a constitutional crisis by trying to block government, trying to prevent GERB from making appointments to the judiciary etc. This provoked the government to raid the Presidency and launch politically motivated prosecutions. Huge crowds rallied to try to protect the president and overturn the government and since then we're now on the eighth election. But it maenas that party is so weird They're quite Eurosceptic and slightly pro-Russia, but strongly anti-corruption and pro-rule of law/investigating crimes committed by political leaders. They have far right supporters, but are also broadly left-populist on lots of issues. From what I've read their main campaign issues were on restoring judicial independence and anti-corruption.

It's sort of like Hungary on rule of law/anti-corruption, but the vibes are reversed.

But what's also striking is the parties don't really - as in a lot of CEE states - fit into traditional Western European models for parties (derived from our tradition of mass parties, which these aren't). They are quite personalist, slightly eccentric in their platform (from a Western perspective). And I wonder if they're also the future for the rest of Europe as the old, traditional parties decline (and their mass base withers) and our politics becomes increasingly personalist/leadership focused?

[Norgy]

I was in Bulgaria a couple of years back and found it slightly depressing; monochrome but one also had the feeling that all the lively Bulgarians had decamped to Western Europe. Very cheap, the economy is in a different gear to,for example, the UK or France. I thought at the time that it was a sort of system that Reform wanted here in Blighty, life in black and white and plenty of opportunities for corruption.

Normally being a low-cost country within the Euro zone would mean growth and investment. But Bulgarians and Romanians rather choose to clean hotels or work in meat packing plants in Germany.

I popped by Bucharest some years ago. My connecting flight was cancelled, so I had to wait a day. I got much of the same impression as you. Street prostitution seemed fairly common, all black-clad in knee-high boots and dyed hair and the most fake eyelids I have seen. Food was good, though. But I will probably say this about almost any country I visit. 

There really aren't many Schengen Bulgarians in Norway. Job opportunities do not grow on trees, and most unskilled labour work in the service industry where you need at least a passable bit of language.

Most Ukrainian refugees refuse to take such jobs.

[crazy canuck]

Has anyone been to Albania recently?  We are thinking about going there next year, but I am wondering if it is overrun with Russians.

[Sheilbh]

That is plausible.

I've not been. Heard great things both about hiking and the Albanian coast.

I don't know if there are lots of Russians there but the Montenegrin riviera has a reputation for that and an abundance of Russian villas. So it seems plausible that they've also discovered the Albanian riviera - but I don't know.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

A colleague of mine went to Albania not too long ago and was quite positive about the whole thing.

[Zanza]

The EU could finally approve 90 billion funding for Ukraine and further sanctions on Russia as Orban withdrew his veto. I wonder if he expected his friends in Moscow and Washington to ghost him right after the lost election.

[Norgy]

Has anyone been to Albania recently?  We are thinking about going there next year, but I am wondering if it is overrun with Russians.

Three times to Durrës in the last 8 years, 2025, the latest.

Yes, there are Russians there. I have chosen to live in apartments on the beach front, and it has definitely changed a lot since the first time I was there. We were robbed on the beach then. I am not joking. Durrës is the most "Italian" place in Albania, with almost exclusively Italian banks and food markets. I met a few Russian women last time I was there, and I do think they were prostitutes. The costs have risen quite a bit in Albania, and most people remain poor, but speak English. Outside the coastline, there is little to entice the tourist to visit. Wild mountains and angry people.

The Adriatic is rather polluted, but still lovely. I would say it is a good choice for a holiday. Just don't rent a car. People drive like maniacs. I have not seen any violence, not much cheating, but some restaurants with young male waiters might want to work on the attitude of their waiters.

The southern part will have more of a Greek influence. Albania is still relatively inexpensive, and their currency, the lek has ridiculously high denominations.

[Sheilbh]

On the interior - I have heard fantastic things about the hiking in Albania (if that's your cup of tea) and people are very friendly. Lots of grilled meat.

[crazy canuck]

Thanks all

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'd be tempted to go to the less-touristed parts of Greece instead myself. But Albania is clearly changing very rapidly; so it may be a case of see it now before it becomes homogenised. There were many hints of old Greece back in the 1970s for example, but they had largely gone by the mid-80s; transformation can be extraordinarily rapid once it starts.

[Norgy]

Thessaloniki seems an interesting city to visit. It is a bit out of the normal tourist wave. I think my first time in Greece was in 1987. To Kos. The traditional taverna was still there, not restaurants, pebbled beach. I entertained myself with a football on the beach and in the water, practising scissor kicks. Unfortunately, I hit some topless German tourist wife and got a stern telling off. 

The tourist-y places are many around the whole Mediterranean. You sort of have to accept it. I am not one for five star hotels, but rather renting a flat with a balcony and having some degree of self-service for food.

Maybe the lack of jet fuel will have adverse consequences for the tourist industry, because most fly. And it is an industry on its own. My ex and I visited Santorini off-season, and the place was beautifully quiet. When the season is over, so much closes down for 6 months.

[Duque de Bragança]

Has anyone been to Albania recently?  We are thinking about going there next year, but I am wondering if it is overrun with Russians.

Three times to Durrazo (Dyrrachium) in the last 8 years, 2025, the latest.

Yes, there are Russians there. I have chosen to live in apartments on the beach front, and it has definitely changed a lot since the first time I was there. We were robbed on the beach then. I am not joking. Durrazo (Dyrrachium) is the most "Italian" place in Albania, with almost exclusively Italian banks and food markets. I met a few Russian women last time I was there, and I do think they were prostitutes. The costs have risen quite a bit in Albania, and most people remain poor, but speak English. Outside the coastline, there is little to entice the tourist to visit. Wild mountains and angry people.

The Adriatic is rather polluted, but still lovely. I would say it is a good choice for a holiday. Just don't rent a car. People drive like maniacs. I have not seen any violence, not much cheating, but some restaurants with young male waiters might want to work on the attitude of their waiters.

Northern Epirus has a huge Greek influence. Albania is still relatively inexpensive, and their currency, the lek has ridiculously high denominations.

Fixed! 

As for not going by plane to Greece, for those not in a hurry, there are the ferries between Italy and Greece. From Bari or Brindisi to Patras (Peloponnesus) or Igoumenitsa (western Greece). 

[Norgy]

Haha. 
Well done.

The ferries are omnipresent in Greece, it seems. But they too run on fossil fuels.