And we're back!
Started by Tamas, April 16, 2021, 08:10:41 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 12, 2021, 05:14:55 AMDon't know how to say this without perhaps sounding "wrong", so to speak, so I'll try to give a quick and rough answer and trust on our many years of virtual friendship so it's not wrongly interpreted. IMO, all those identity worries are wildly overplayed, and it's not something that most people look up at the EU for. Most EU countries don't share those worries about identity, colonialism, race, minorities, etc, (let's jokingly call them "sociological 1st world problems") those might be concerns for the UK and France (and for them they can be big issues), and to lesser degrees other EU countries with that kind of profile, but for most EU countries they're completely alien topics and stressing them can make them feel alienated from what the EU represents to most of them, that is, peace, stability and material well-being, and that's what the EU should focus on.
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2021, 06:54:03 AMFWIW I don't think I've ever come across anyone in Sweden who thinks at all about a European identity, or thinks of the EU at all when discussing immigration and integration (beyond the EU making immigration from other EU countries easier). The EU is viewed as a utilitarian tool for practical matters, anything about identity is thought of at the national level.
Quote from: Zanza on May 18, 2021, 01:03:42 AMWhat material change do you expect to immigration policy? It is still mainly a domestic issue as each country has its own policies on who is accepted.
QuoteOn the European level, there are no real distribution mechanisms anyway and I feel that topic is pretty dead. Beyond that, we already pay dictators and warlords money to keep refugees in camps, we have high tech borders guarded by the EU's Frontex with questionable means, we let hundreds or thousands of people drown in the Mediterranean Sea every year, there are mechanisms like Dublin II where e.g. Salvini has a very different position than Orban or Kurz.
QuoteI don't see what Merkel has as a moderating influence here. Beyond her unilateral action in 2015, she has been supportive of these policies or at least not fought them.
Quote from: Zanza on May 18, 2021, 06:49:25 AMStrengthening Fortress Europe is easily a majority opinion in every member state, so it is just a question of the details, not enough to create a major rift. That's also why Frontex is allowed to grow when otherwise member states are not very willing to pool sovereignty on security measures. As Frontex is miniscule compared to national security organizations, I doubt that it's cultural impact will matter.
QuoteMerkel has no domestic capital left, she is a lame duck and treated so by other German politicians. That's pretty obvious in our Covid response. I doubt that she still has much international weight as she has no means to deliver beyond the next few months. General German interests will be shared by whoever is her successor though.
QuoteEurope has cut itself off from its historyLuuk van MedelaarIn their cowardly meaninglessness, the euro notes are eloquent. A design competition was held for the new coin in 1996. Participants had to depict specific bridges and buildings - in a series running from the Pont du Gard in Nîmes (five euros) to the modernist Rietveld-Schröder house (the five hundred). Thus, the new currency would be anchored in European architectural history.Designer Robert Kalina made an intervention that won him the prize: he made the bridges and buildings anonymous. As a result, the notes in our wallets show architectural styles but no individual buildings. The jury of bank governors must have feared public disapproval: "No, that's not our European bridge in Nîmes, but their French bridge!" Fear of national reflexes trumped the desire to give the euro cultural soil. A missed opportunity.That was then. But the world is changing. China, Russia and India are also mobilizing civilization and culture under Xi, Putin and Modi for their raw power politics. The idea of 'the West', geographic umbrella and cultural hyphen for North America and Europe, is losing meaning. This is another reason why the desire for a place of its own in the world has grown in recent years - Europe not only as a beacon of universal values, but as a continent with a culture, history and story.From Amsterdam wants The European Review of Books , a recentannounced upstart in crowd-funding phase, to initiate a European conversation between writers and intellectuals, as a successor to enlightenment philosopher Pierre Bayle 's Nouvelles de la République des Lettres . The high-quality website Le Grand Continent has been operating from Paris since 2019 , driven by people in their twenties and thirties, to keep the conversation about politics, geography, law and art "on the right scale": the continental one.Multilingualism is the first obstacle to a European-wide public debate. Both initiatives make it a strength. The young Parisians started out in French, but are increasingly publishing in Italian and Spanish; German and Polish are on the way. The European Review - which for the time being has attracted more authors from the UK and the US than from continental Europe - wants to publish essays in English and (if different) the author's language. This doubling fits well with Europe's relationship to our national political-cultural spaces: the shelter of a common roof, not the threat of expulsion.Naturally, the 'Europe' of culture and civilization does not coincide with that of Brussels. Britain's departure (2020) alone cuts across the EU's dream of one day spanning the continent geographically. That, too, makes Brexit so painful, even more so than cod disputes or vaccine disputes: 'Europe' as a space of imagination is losing Shakespeare, Newton and The Beatles.Nevertheless, bridges must be built between the political-legal sphere and Europe's culture and history. The problem is not so much that the EU is blind to culture, as Review founder Sander Pleij suggested . The economic, social and cultural importance of the film industry or museums is also recognized in Brussels; billions are going there.The real problem is that the EU has cut itself off from history. In the Brussels discourse, it sometimes seems as if Europe was 'born' on 9 May 1950 - the day on which the French minister Schuman made the proposal for its founding. After two world wars, the strong line under the past was palpable. But the states and peoples of Europe cannot build a common future on such a short, thin past.Time to give the story a different 'main character'. Not post-war integration, with its heroes and setbacks, treaties and expansions, but rather the European Union as a follower of the State Concert between 1648 and 1914 and as a political expression of a civilization space that goes back to Athens and Rome, to Socrates, Cicero and Paul.Of course, that would be criticized. Some accuse Europe of being a 'white' project. But a tradition of reason and doubt, of plurality and freedom, does not necessarily have to sink into guilt and shame. Let the debate begin.The only European leader who recognizes the importance of a non-universal historical narrative is Emmanuel Macron. Just as he did not want to leave the thorny term 'sovereignty' to Europe's opponents, but has been claiming for the Union since 2017, he wants to be able to rely on civilization and history on behalf of Europe - no longer to shrink from fear of the unexploded mines in the bottom of our imagination. He is right: anyone who cuts himself off from history cannot imagine a future either.Luuk van Middelaar is a political philosopher, historian and professor of EU law (Leiden).
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 20, 2021, 03:04:38 AMQuoteMerkel has no domestic capital left, she is a lame duck and treated so by other German politicians. That's pretty obvious in our Covid response. I doubt that she still has much international weight as she has no means to deliver beyond the next few months. General German interests will be shared by whoever is her successor though.Interesting - it feels like she's leaving office with political capital. She could run again and easily win.
QuoteOn a possible civilisational turn - an argument for it by Luuk van Middelaar who is, I think, one of the best writers on the EU. And of course he makes explicit the link between a European identity based on history and culture with European sovereignty in an age of civilisation states (Russia, India, China etc). Google translated:QuoteEurope has cut itself off from its historyLuuk van Medelaar
QuoteEurope has cut itself off from its historyLuuk van Medelaar
Quote from: celedhring on May 20, 2021, 07:20:43 AMAnd what shared political past are we supposed to draw upon, the Continental System? More seriously, all possible examples are rather horrible for different reasons. And again, I feel the whole thing's unnecessary. I'm pretty happy with building an "identity" around post-WWII ideas of liberal democracy.
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