From the "Black People Arrest Themselves" files

[The Minsky Moment]

It may have been a police officer acting badly, or the professor acting badly, and neither side is yet proven at all, but it's become a racial issue regardless of what really transpired. And that's a sad in its own way.

Let's put it this way - if the suspect in question had been Justice Breyer (who resides in Cambridge and used to teach at Harvard), would he have been charged and arrested?  What about Larry Summers?

I'd like to think race didn't play a role here, but it doesn't seem all that likely.

[Berkut]

It may have been a police officer acting badly, or the professor acting badly, and neither side is yet proven at all, but it's become a racial issue regardless of what really transpired. And that's a sad in its own way.

Let's put it this way - if the suspect in question had been Justice Breyer (who resides in Cambridge and used to teach at Harvard), would he have been charged and arrested?  What about Larry Summers?

Would either of them had accused the officer of being a racist and acted like an asshole for having the audacity of responding to a call reporting a possible break-in?

If yes, then I bet they would have been arrested.

I'd like to think race didn't play a role here, but it doesn't seem all that likely.

There is no question it played a role here - played by the professor it seems like. Stupid cracker cop.

[The Minsky Moment]

Indeed. A sergeant should know that in Cambridge the race card trumps everything, and should have accepted the professors verbal assault with humility and deference.

"Verbal assault" - what an interesting phrase.   I have another term for the same concept: "talking"

I guess an eminent professor with long ties to the community should have known that the First Amendment does not apply with Cambridge City limits, and "being uppity to a police sergeant" is a criminal offense.

[Berkut]

Indeed. A sergeant should know that in Cambridge the race card trumps everything, and should have accepted the professors verbal assault with humility and deference.

"Verbal assault" - what an interesting phrase.   I have another term for the same concept: "talking"

Kind of like asking someone for ID is "talking" unless you are a "eminent" black professor, in which case it is racial harassment and a violation of his First Amendment Rights ZOMG!

I guess an eminent professor with long ties to the community should have known that the First Amendment does not apply with Cambridge City limits, and "being uppity to a police sergeant" is a criminal offense.

I guess the fact that nobody can talk about this guy without mentioning how important and eminent he is says everything about how this went down.

[The Minsky Moment]

Would either of them had accused the officer of being a racist and acted like an asshole for having the audacity of responding to a call reporting a possible break-in?

Either might have been angry depending on the circumstances and threatened consequences.   No way they get arrested.  Of course, if it had been one of those guys, the officer probably would have conducted himself very differently in the first place.

If your point is that the accusation of racism caused the arrest, I think that proves my point.

[Berkut]

Would either of them had accused the officer of being a racist and acted like an asshole for having the audacity of responding to a call reporting a possible break-in?

Either might have been angry depending on the circumstances and threatened consequences.   No way they get arrested.

I think you must be able to read minds or something then. I think it is very possible that a white guy who gets verbally abusive with a police officer and calls him a racist could be arreseted. What reason do you have to believe that this is simply not possible?

If a black officer had responded, and the white professor accused him of racism for no particular reason beyond the fact that he was black, it would not surprise me if it ended with the professor in cuffs.

  Of course, if it had been one of those guys, the officer probably would have conducted himself very differently in the first place.

How do you know that? Are you suggesting the officer would not have asked for ID? What would he have done differently exactly?

If your point is that the accusation of racism caused the arrest, I think that proves my point.

My point is that if you act like a douchebag to the guy whose job it is to protect your property, and start making a scene over what is a rather routine interaction, and start ranting about racism, then in fact the person being racist is yourself, not the cop who is trying to do his job.

And if in fact the professor accused the cop of racism, then it proves MY point - that if there is any racism involved, it is on the part of the professor for whipping out the race card the moment a cop asked him for some ID.[/quote]

[Malthus]

It may have been a police officer acting badly, or the professor acting badly, and neither side is yet proven at all, but it's become a racial issue regardless of what really transpired. And that's a sad in its own way.

Let's put it this way - if the suspect in question had been Justice Breyer (who resides in Cambridge and used to teach at Harvard), would he have been charged and arrested?  What about Larry Summers?

I'd like to think race didn't play a role here, but it doesn't seem all that likely.

It would look a little odd if one of them had said "why, is it because I'm a Black man?"

Cop's reaction = 

That being said, I personally don't think being mouthy with a cop ought to be an arrestable offence. That said, a longhaired teen being cuffed for it would make exactly zero waves (I used to be a longhaired teen and I knew that very well - I was always polite to cops) - this is a class thing as much as it is a race thing; upper middle class types expect service with deference from the cops.

Whether that expectation is reasonable or not is the issue. Ideally, in law the cops should give the same amount service with deference to everyone, and treat all alike; but it is well known they do not. The concern here is that the cop did not extend the deference to which this man was "entitled" by virtue of his position, and the suspicion is that he didn't extend the proper deference because the guy was Black; what people on the other side are objecting to is the notion that a cop should meekly offer that level of deference to anyone, Black or White; in law probably they are supposed to (i.e., not arrest someone for being mouthy) no matter what race or class they are. 

[The Minsky Moment]

I think you must be able to read minds or something then. I think it is very possible that a white guy who gets verbally abusive with a police officer and calls him a racist could be arreseted.

On what grounds?

If a black officer had responded, and the white professor accused him of racism for no particular reason beyond the fact that he was black, it would not surprise me if it ended with the professor in cuffs.

I guess we will have to agree to differ on that.  I think that if a police sergeant entered Justice Breyer's home without his consent, asked for his ID and if Justice Breyer had then said - "Do you have any idea who I am?  You don't know who you are messing with" - there is zero chance that interaction results in Justice Breyer being arrested, handcuffed, booked and held in custody for 5 hours.  No I can't prove it, but I am pretty confident nonetheless.

[Malthus]

I guess we will have to agree to differ on that.  I think that if a police sergeant entered Justice Breyer's home without his consent, asked for his ID and if Justice Breyer had then said - "Do you have any idea who I am?  You don't know who you are messing with" - there is zero chance that interaction results in Justice Breyer being arrested and handcuffed.  No I can't prove it, but I am pretty confident nonetheless.

As I said, a class entitlement thing. Picture the same scene in a crappy apartment with a half-naked tatooed twentysomething guy with long stringy hair. Suddenly an arrest doesn't seem so improbable.

[The Minsky Moment]

As I said, a class entitlement thing. Picture the same scene in a crappy apartment with a half-naked tatooed twentysomething guy with long stringy hair. Suddenly an arrest doesn't seem so improbable.

No question you are correct.  In either case, its still an improper arrest.  But the real question is why Gates didn't get the kind of relative deference that ordinarily is given to a more mature, upper middle class, property-owner who is well-known in the community- which is the point you just made above.

[Barrister]

I think you must be able to read minds or something then. I think it is very possible that a white guy who gets verbally abusive with a police officer and calls him a racist could be arreseted.

On what grounds?

Depending on the circumstances, causing a disturbance or obstructing a peace officer could apply.

[Strix]

I think you must be able to read minds or something then. I think it is very possible that a white guy who gets verbally abusive with a police officer and calls him a racist could be arreseted.

On what grounds?

Where I live he could be arrested for obstructing governmental administration. It's a very vague statute used when people interfere or are uncooperative. They also use a hindering prosecution statute for those that lie.

[Caliga]

Hm, are you guys aware of the fact that Gates has disputed that he ever made any of those statements about racism?  The only thing he agrees that he said was that he wanted to know the officer's name and badge number, and he agreed that he got angry when the officer refused to provide that info.

[Admiral Yi]

Looks like another cop is moving to Idaho.

[Barrister]

Looks like another cop is moving to Idaho.

Luck guy.