Quo Vadis GOP?

[Admiral Yi]

What sort of time horizon are you considering? The next few days? The Biden Presidency? The next two decades?

I was considering the short to medium term but I think it applies to the long term as well.

[Syt]

On several occasions now, Fox has defended its "news anchors" by saying they are entertainment personalities that are deliberately trafficking in hyperbole, not facts.

Seriously? Holy shit.

You didn't know that?

Reminds me of how Germany's biggest tabloid argued in court a few years ago that their main business is selling ad space and that editorial content and news stories are merely a vehicle for providing said ad space.

[grumbler]

We've discussed that before - but the Constitution in the US has mostly become a totem. It has little exisitence in the minds of the Republican grassroots beyond abortion, gun rights, white supremacy, and slogans about American superiority and freedom. The point of such a coup would be the point of many similar past coups: to purge political life of undesirable elements. In the minds of these Republicans, they are safeguarding the true US - one that has mostly been embodied in these empty slogans, rather than civics.

Regardless of whether or not it succeeds (and I would argue Americans need to seriously entertain the possibility such a thing may happen, if only to adapt their expectations and political actions accordingly), the fact that a major, mainstream party of the US is now more-than-tacitly embracing the possibility, and desirability of such a purge is MAJOR cause for concern and action. To brush it aside as the thinking of morons is all fine and good when these morons are marginal. But in the US, these morons have considerable institutional power. And a lot of people are willing, and able, to amplify that power.  It will not go away on its own.

I agree that there is a non-zero chance of something happening, but disagree that we need to watch more Tucker Carlson to figure out what the revolutionaries are planning.

[crazy canuck]

On several occasions now, Fox has defended its "news anchors" by saying they are entertainment personalities that are deliberately trafficking in hyperbole, not facts.

But every show is prominently branded as "Fox News".

Is that not false advertising?

I ask because some state false advertising laws have statutory penalties for each offense.  Fox News probably has dozens of offenses every day.

The mere puffery defence.  No reasonable person would mistake that to be a news broadcast.

[The Brain]

Why "Tucker"? Is he friarer?

[DGuller]

I'm definitely not allayed by the knowledge that the military swears to protect the Constitution.  I don't see why the interpretation of what it means to protect the Constitution is impervious to complete distortion of reality, when the rest of reality proved to be no match.  Retaking the power that is rightfully theirs may well be protecting the Constitution in the minds of those undertaking a coup.

[alfred russel]

Successful military coups don't really happen anymore--they kind of went out with the cold war. What is far more common is that leaders become entrenched with elections still taking place but the opposition being hamstringed (and possible election fraud that isn't explicit). Maybe the best example is erdogan's Turkey, where a coup failed and Erdogan seems secure in power having been prime minister or president since 2003. This model even works in the EU framework: see Orban's Hungary.

[DGuller]

Successful military coups don't really happen anymore--they kind of went out with the cold war. What is far more common is that leaders become entrenched with elections still taking place but the opposition being hamstringed (and possible election fraud that isn't explicit). Maybe the best example is erdogan's Turkey, where a coup failed and Erdogan seems secure in power having been prime minister or president since 2003. This model even works in the EU framework: see Orban's Hungary.

Coups don't happen anymore, but sometimes the military does step in to right a wrong committed by the civilian government, by removing said government.  Morsi was removed after he defied his defense minister's directive to restore order.

Even if you're right and a coup in the US will not happen, it's not like an auto-coup is a distant possibility.  We know the electorate will vote GOP back in sooner rather than later, and we know the commitment to democratic institutions is not particularly strong among the party.

[alfred russel]

Even if you're right and a coup in the US will not happen, it's not like an auto-coup is a distant possibility.  We know the electorate will vote GOP back in sooner rather than later, and we know the commitment to democratic institutions is not particularly strong among the party.

That is my point...the military coup potential is a distraction. The game is that the next time the GOP wins the presidency it goes the Orban/Erdogan/Putin route.

[garbon]

Trump's blog has now been abandoned after low readership.

[The Minsky Moment]

On several occasions now, Fox has defended its "news anchors" by saying they are entertainment personalities that are deliberately trafficking in hyperbole, not facts.

Seriously? Holy shit.

As one example - from McDougal v. Fox News Network, LLC (SDNY 2020)

Fox News first argues that, viewed in context, Mr. Carlson cannot be understood to have been stating facts, but instead that he was delivering an opinion using hyperbole for effect . . .As Defendant notes, Mr. Carlson himself aims to "challenge[] political correctness and media bias." Def. Br. at 14. This "general tenor" of the show should then inform a viewer that he is not "stating actual facts" about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in"exaggeration" and "non-literal commentary."  Fox persuasively argues, see Def Br. at 13-15, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer "arrives with an appropriate amount of skepticism" about the statements he makes.

[The Minsky Moment]

The decision was nonsense of course - I'd hazard that the vast majority of Carlson's viewers believe him as preaching gospel truth.  At the very least it is a very significant question of fact that should have prevented dismissal of McDougal's case.  But we've already taken a couple steps towards the Orbanification of American justice.

[Jacob]

So is there something that can be done about Fox News?

IMO they're undermining democracy in the US and have been for decades.

[DGuller]

So is there something that can be done about Fox News?

IMO they're undermining democracy in the US and have been for decades.

Not until we concede that in the 21st century, free speech may need more limits placed on it than it needed in the 20th century, due to technological advances in propaganda technology.

[grumbler]

So is there something that can be done about Fox News?

IMO they're undermining democracy in the US and have been for decades.

Not until we concede that in the 21st century, free speech may need more limits placed on it than it needed in the 20th century, due to technological advances in propaganda technology.

That's very much a wo-edged sword.  China is implementing your suggestion, and it isn't going well for the average Chinese person.