Quo Vadis GOP?

[grumbler]

Huh did not know that.
As delicious as it would be to see Flynn hoisted on his authoritarian petard and locked away for inciting treasonous conspiracy, not sure I care for that precedent.

I don't think you could convict Flynn of "inciting conspiracy."  I agree that trying someone for mere speech that doesn't incite anything would be a bad precedent.  But I'll be interested to see if a future Republican administration tries to get him a security clearance.

[Jacob]

I don't think you could convict Flynn of "inciting conspiracy."  I agree that trying someone for mere speech that doesn't incite anything would be a bad precedent.  But I'll be interested to see if a future Republican administration tries to get him a security clearance.

Depends if the GOP is going to go for Coup v2.0, but this time better organized, or not.

[Sheilbh]

I don't think you could convict Flynn of "inciting conspiracy."  I agree that trying someone for mere speech that doesn't incite anything would be a bad precedent.  But I'll be interested to see if a future Republican administration tries to get him a security clearance.

Depends if the GOP is going to go for Coup v2.0, but this time better organized, or not.

Maybe?

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
·
6h
Trump has been telling a number of people he's in contact with that he expects he will get reinstated by August (no that isn't how it works but simply sharing the information).

Quote Tweet
Donie O'Sullivan
@donie
Talk of a Myanmar-style coup in the United States has been popular among some Trump supporters and QAnon believers for months.

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
It isn't happening in a vacuum. It is happening as he faced the possibility of an indictment from the Manhattan DA.
But he is not putting out statements about the "audits" in states just for the sake of it. He's been laser focused on them, according to several people who've spoken with him (as well as WaPo reporting a few weeks ago).

[Jacob]

Oh wow... I meant in the aftermath of the GOP winning elections in the future, whether they'd try the same putsch playbook again, but better organized rather than handing over power.

But if Trump tries to organize something in the next little while, that's a whole other thing.

[Oexmelin]

It's a good idea to watch Tucker Carlson's call for the army to basically intervene "if they love their country". Just as a reminder of where things are going - and a reminder that Carlson has quite a bit of sway in setting the talking points of militant grassroots Republicans.

[grumbler]

It's a good idea to watch Tucker Carlson's call for the army to basically intervene "if they love their country". Just as a reminder of where things are going - and a reminder that Carlson has quite a bit of sway in setting the talking points of militant grassroots Republicans.

You don't even have to listen to Tucker Carlson to know that he is saying the most idiotic thing possible, and being believed by the most idiotic people possible.  He hasn't changed a bit.  I'm kinda hoping he lures the traitors in the US military out out from beneath their rocks so we can shitcan them.  We know that there's going to be a certain percentage of  pretty much any military that values their cosplay fantasies more than they value their country.

[Admiral Yi]

I rate the probability of military coup: low.

[HVC]

a call to treason on tv has to be serious... right? i mean in a rational world would Tucker be in shit?

[grumbler]

a call to treason on tv has to be serious... right? i mean in a rational world would Tucker be in shit?

Tucker has already successfully defended himself from a slander suit on the grounds (which the judge accepted) that he is full of shit that no reasonable person would believe what he says.  https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

The judicial system of the US has basically ruled (accepting the pleading of his lawyer) that his listeners are morons.    That fact needs to be widely disseminated.

[The Minsky Moment]

On several occasions now, Fox has defended its "news anchors" by saying they are entertainment personalities that are deliberately trafficking in hyperbole, not facts.

But every show is prominently branded as "Fox News".

Is that not false advertising?

I ask because some state false advertising laws have statutory penalties for each offense.  Fox News probably has dozens of offenses every day.

[Valmy]

On several occasions now, Fox has defended its "news anchors" by saying they are entertainment personalities that are deliberately trafficking in hyperbole, not facts.

Seriously? Holy shit.

[Valmy]

It's a good idea to watch Tucker Carlson's call for the army to basically intervene "if they love their country". Just as a reminder of where things are going - and a reminder that Carlson has quite a bit of sway in setting the talking points of militant grassroots Republicans.

That would be such a pointless coup. I don't even know what they are trying to accomplish. I mean once you cancel elections and suspend the Constitution what exactly are you defending? Not the United States because you pretty much just cancelled it. And what exactly would they change? Make it illegal to disagree with them? It just makes no sense. Even if they execute a bunch of opposition politicians for "treason" I mean all their supporters would still be out there to vote more opposition people in.

[Jacob]

I rate the probability of military coup: low.

What sort of time horizon are you considering? The next few days? The Biden Presidency? The next two decades?

[Oexmelin]

That would be such a pointless coup. I don't even know what they are trying to accomplish. I mean once you cancel elections and suspend the Constitution what exactly are you defending? Not the United States because you pretty much just cancelled it.

We've discussed that before - but the Constitution in the US has mostly become a totem. It has little exisitence in the minds of the Republican grassroots beyond abortion, gun rights, white supremacy, and slogans about American superiority and freedom. The point of such a coup would be the point of many similar past coups: to purge political life of undesirable elements. In the minds of these Republicans, they are safeguarding the true US - one that has mostly been embodied in these empty slogans, rather than civics.

Regardless of whether or not it succeeds (and I would argue Americans need to seriously entertain the possibility such a thing may happen, if only to adapt their expectations and political actions accordingly), the fact that a major, mainstream party of the US is now more-than-tacitly embracing the possibility, and desirability of such a purge is MAJOR cause for concern and action. To brush it aside as the thinking of morons is all fine and good when these morons are marginal. But in the US, these morons have considerable institutional power. And a lot of people are willing, and able, to amplify that power.  It will not go away on its own.

[Jacob]

On several occasions now, Fox has defended its "news anchors" by saying they are entertainment personalities that are deliberately trafficking in hyperbole, not facts.

Seriously? Holy shit.

You didn't know that?