What does a BIDEN Presidency look like?

[Syt]

Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.

[The Brain]

I recall a uni professor for Latin complaining about literal Bible translations, especially the New Testament which (he said) was written in colloquial Greek with Jewish influences. His example was something like, when the translations says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you", the original is more akin to, "Yo, listen up, here's the thing:"

Were many of the "verily verily" translations done back in olden times when that was the way people talked, meaning that the translation was fine?

[Valmy]

I recall a uni professor for Latin complaining about literal Bible translations, especially the New Testament which (he said) was written in colloquial Greek with Jewish influences. His example was something like, when the translations says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you", the original is more akin to, "Yo, listen up, here's the thing:"

"Verily, verily, I say unto you" was an early 17th century way of saying "Yo, listen up, here's the thing:"

[Syt]

But some people still stick to that

[Sheilbh]

But some people still stick to that

Yes - although always weird that (at least in the English speaking world) the guys who are likely to use the "verily I say unto thee" version are normally preaching in conference centres with a laser light show and possibly a post-sermon Monster Truck demo, while the guys in cassocks with incense use post-1960s translations that fully aware of Biblical criticism etc

[Valmy]

But some people still stick to that

The KJV lasted for so long it became "God's English" the English that Jesus spoke. So it gained a currency as a liturgical language for the most conservative.

We have entire denominations who consider using anything other than the early 17th century version satanic. Of course this is only a Protestant problem as the Orthodox and Catholics never used the KJV.

My favorite example of the KJV status as "God's English" is when Joseph Smith made up translated the Book of Mormon he used that kind of English instead of, you know, 19th Century English because early 17th Century English is just how God talks.

[Barrister]

The KJV has a real beauty to it that some of the more colloquial translations just seem somewhat lacking.

But of course you have to remember that it is a translation, that there are always choices made in translations, and that of course Jesus never spoke in English.


But it's just so on-brand for Wolf to think she single-handedly discovered a new field of study that has in fact been hotly debated for centuries...

[Valmy]

The KJV has a real beauty to it that some of the more colloquial translations just seem somewhat lacking.

Right. The same sort of beauty as Shakespeare. "Where the fuck are you, Romeo?" just doesn't have the same ring to it. I get people wanting to use the KJV for short quotes for the poetry, but trying to actually read the whole Bible that way is really difficult unless you are used to that dialect. That is why the colloquial ones are better at getting people to actually read and understand the Bible, for the exact same reason translating it from the vulgate made sense back in the early 17th Century. Presuming people reading and understanding the Bible is something you want 

But of course you have to remember that it is a translation, that there are always choices made in translations, and that of course Jesus never spoke in English.

And some of the manuscripts that the KJV used are now more questionable and there are better manuscripts closer to the original writing now available.

But it's just so on-brand for Wolf to think she single-handedly discovered a new field of study that has in fact been hotly debated for centuries...

Right? "Did you know the Bible was originally not written in English and certain translations might not be ideal?"



I especially like just using a Greek-to-English dictionary for doing the job 

[Caliga]

My grandfather was a Lutheran pastor and served a term as a Bishop in the ELCA.  I remember him telling me that during his term he had argued in favor of endorsing some newer revision of the Bible because he wanted the Message to be as clear as possible to as many people as possible, but there were conservatives who disagreed and ultimately they made no change to their recommended translation of the Bible for congregations... or something along those lines (this was in the 1980s so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the specifics).

[The Minsky Moment]

Wait until Wolf sees that crazy Mel Gibson movie and realizes that Jesus was actually a native Aramaic speaker.

[Syt]

My grandfather was a Lutheran pastor and served a term as a Bishop in the ELCA.  I remember him telling me that during his term he had argued in favor of endorsing some newer revision of the Bible because he wanted the Message to be as clear as possible to as many people as possible, but there were conservatives who disagreed and ultimately they made no change to their recommended translation of the Bible for congregations... or something along those lines (this was in the 1980s so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the specifics).

It's weirdly ironic. Translating the Bible into language people could understand (English, German etc.) without need for interlocutors in the form of pastors/priests was once a transgressive and groundbreaking move. Now, these centuries old translations have become more difficult to understand for contemporary Christians, but now you have again some conservatives pushing back on updating translations, sticking to the old ones.

[Caliga]

It's weirdly ironic. Translating the Bible into language people could understand (English, German etc.) without need for interlocutors in the form of pastors/priests was once a transgressive and groundbreaking move. Now, these centuries old translations have become more difficult to understand for contemporary Christians, but now you have again some conservatives pushing back on updating translations, sticking to the old ones.

My recollection is that this was exactly the point he was making... Luther wanted EVERYONE to be able to read the Bible for themselves.  If the language is too difficult for Joe Sixpack to understand, then you are going against the spirit of what the Reformation was all about.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

That is why the colloquial ones are better at getting people to actually read and understand the Bible, for the exact same reason translating it from the vulgate made sense back in the early 17th Century. Presuming people reading and understanding the Bible is something you want 

Given the fundies it appears that translating the Bible helped with the reading, but not the understanding...

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Wait until Wolf sees that crazy Mel Gibson movie and realizes that Jesus was actually a native Aramaic speaker.

Better keep her away from Qurans then or we'll have a jihad on our hands... another one.

[Razgovory]

Does Wolf know koine Greek?  It's not a good idea to try a literal translation if you don't know the language.