The Real problem with cancel culture

[Berkut]

The anti woke cult may knee jerk like "omg all this fuss about a rock!" but conversely...its just a rock and it seems to have some recent history behind it offending some people. So Meh. Move it. Seems to be a solution that keeps all sensible people, the majority, happy.

I would rather see that $50,000 spent on making college more affordable for low income students, myself.

Or funding some actual research into how to better deliver solutions to those who have suffered from systemic racism.

I'd like to see the $50,000 spent on making the university a more inviting place for minority students, so that all students benefit from being part of a more diverse student body.

Oh... wait!

I haven't seen anything that suggests that that money is going to accomplish that at all. But you may be less skeptical then me.

[grumbler]

I haven't seen anything that suggests that that money is going to accomplish that at all. But you may be less skeptical then me.

I also might have read the whole article and seen what you didn't see.

[Josquius]

The anti woke cult

Thanks for illustrating how the claim that the woke left attempts to shout down dissenting views by personal attacks is such bullshit.

A cult very much describes how they operate.
You're the one drawing closer to personal attacks calling me "woke".

No, a cult is not at all how people who are concerned about cancel culture and aren't frightened into shutting up about it yet operate.

To view the world in these terms is very culty.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/those-who-use-woke-as-an-insult-forget-the-point-of-a-real-debate

[Berkut]

The anti woke cult

Thanks for illustrating how the claim that the woke left attempts to shout down dissenting views by personal attacks is such bullshit.

A cult very much describes how they operate.
You're the one drawing closer to personal attacks calling me "woke".

No, a cult is not at all how people who are concerned about cancel culture and aren't frightened into shutting up about it yet operate.

To view the world in these terms is very culty.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/those-who-use-woke-as-an-insult-forget-the-point-of-a-real-debate

I haven't used the term woke as an insult, so I don't see any need to respond to an argument about those who do.

[Zoupa]

The anti woke cult

Thanks for illustrating how the claim that the woke left attempts to shout down dissenting views by personal attacks is such bullshit.

A cult very much describes how they operate.
You're the one drawing closer to personal attacks calling me "woke".

No, a cult is not at all how people who are concerned about cancel culture and aren't frightened into shutting up about it yet operate.

To view the world in these terms is very culty.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/those-who-use-woke-as-an-insult-forget-the-point-of-a-real-debate

I haven't used the term woke as an insult, so I don't see any need to respond to an argument about those who do.

x1000

[Berkut]

SO let me see if I have this straight.

Tyr uses the term woke as in "the anti woke...".

This is apparently not meant to be an insult, clearly, but a label to which he attaches "anti" to signify those who oppose whatever that label says.

He then references those people as a "cult". This is fine, of course, since he is on the right side of the argument.

I wryly note how amusing it is that he is doing *exactly* the thing the "left" (carefully avoiding using the term woke since I know it triggers you all) claims they never, gosh no, never ever do.

His defense of making a ad hom is that they called him "woke", which apparently is an insult. He apparently did not notice that it was actually HIM who called his half of the argument woke? And of course "but they did it first!" is never really a good defense anyway.

[Berkut]

...and then we get to top it off with Zoupa finding it hilarious that I don't use the term as an insult, when I didn't use the term at all, and I don't consider it an insult in any case. Any more then the term "socialist", "conservative", "progressive", or "anarchist" or any other term used to broadly label some particular view is an insult.

He is fine with calling people cultists though. As long as they are the right people, of course. THAT is a-ok.

[crazy canuck]

Let me offer a geologic defence of leaving the rock where it was.

The article calls it a "glacial erratic".  So during the last ice age the rock became detached from wherever it started and was carried by the ice hundreds or thousands of kilometres until it was ultimately deposited by the melting ice.  So it has geologic and historic significance - but only in the place it was deposited.  Otherwise it's just a big hunk of granite.

The geology profs at the university raised a similar issue - apparently the rock is used for course work there.  In order to address that need the rock was moved to another location on campus which is part of the same geological area.  You can find the chancellors explanation for all of that with a quick google search.

[crazy canuck]

I haven't used the term woke as an insult

No not in the last few hours anyway.

[Berkut]

I haven't used the term woke as an insult

No not in the last few hours anyway.

Not ever. Since I don't consider it an insult, and I know better then you what I mean by what I say, no matter how much you wish you and Tyr and Zoupa could define my intent yourselves.

Funny, you have no problem with Tyr using the term "cult" as a clear insult though. It's almost like your objection is entirely based on tribalism and cognitive bias, rather then any actual principle...

[crazy canuck]

You may lack some self awareness on this issue or a failure to recognize your bombastic tone may be regarded as insulting.

[Admiral Yi]

You disagree with any ideology because you think the reasoning is flawed or the conclusions unwarranted.  Does that mean that calling someone progressive, or a centrist, or a free marketer, or whatever, is also an insult?  I don't think so.

I would go so far as to say the reason Squeeze feels being called woke is an insult is because he himself is aware of the shortcomings of wokism.  I see people like Squeeze and Zoupa as not being card carrying members but more like fellow travelers: the general principles are great, a lot of stupid stuff is said, but they have to defend the stupid stuff too because it's your team.  And they certainly can't say the stupid stuff is stupid.

I think removing the rock is silly for the same reasons Berkut mentioned. 

[Zoupa]

I don't know the specifics of that particular symbol in that particular place.

My point of view is to inherently empathize/put myself in the shoes of people saying "this is fucked up and it shouldn't be here. It makes us feel like shit".

Who am I to say different or mock what they're saying?

[The Brain]

While I sympathize with the sentiment, we cannot simply remove America.

[Josquius]

You disagree with any ideology because you think the reasoning is flawed or the conclusions unwarranted.  Does that mean that calling someone progressive, or a centrist, or a free marketer, or whatever, is also an insult?  I don't think so.

I would go so far as to say the reason Squeeze feels being called woke is an insult is because he himself is aware of the shortcomings of wokism.  I see people like Squeeze and Zoupa as not being card carrying members but more like fellow travelers: the general principles are great, a lot of stupid stuff is said, but they have to defend the stupid stuff too because it's your team.  And they certainly can't say the stupid stuff is stupid.

I think removing the rock is silly for the same reasons Berkut mentioned. 

I don't defend the stupid stuff.
Rather I see it as dumb but ultimately irrelevant. Those people have zero influence in the real world.
What does have a very real and negative impact on the world however, is their opposite number. The reactionary "Anti woke" ideology is being used to great success by the populist right - pretend anything in the vaguest left of centre is absolutely the same as a random raging lunatic on twitter demanding mandatory self flagelafion for white people and castration of cis males and boom, instant outrage to drag regular people over to the hard right.
The goal is to Paint it that the left are the unreasonable ones on the attack (got to claim the victim position. This is vital) and the far right isn't actually that right wing it's just the centre is in a crazy far left place.

Basically I don't think "woke" and "cancel culture" and any of that stuff is good. I find the entire idea its a problem to be one part laughable and one part painful and dangerous.
It's not that I'm playing the same game and merely supporting the other side (there can only be two sides) , a common problem in the world view of those too wrapped up in an ideology. The way I view the world is just fundamentally different. This isn't a game of football, its a rock concert.