The Real problem with cancel culture

[PRC]

I boycott any show or movie with Keifer Sutherland or Charlie Sheen in it.

Exception for Lost Boys.

Platoon!?
Major League!?
Wall Street!?
Young Guns!?

Seminal undercover cop biker movie Beyond the Law!?

How can you turn away!?

[Camerus]

I boycott Electrolux  / Frigidaire since my experience is that they sell junk and would rather spend several hundreds of their own dollars, spite their retailers and customers vs just spending a smaller amount to fix an inconsequential problem.

[viper37]

And in the process, you lose your reputation, your friends, your carreer, your sources of income.
I'd prefer to be dead.

Then don't complain about left-wing activists using violence.

They're French speaking, so they were obviously racists, and I guess that justify this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwmnhIH6fS0
And another bunch of peace minded folks:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e45rBsiASao
The guy speaking describe how he was attacked by 3 antifas who asked him to identify himself and try to steal his wallet, most likely because they wanted to know where he lived so they could keep on harrassing him.

What's the difference between this and the police beating journalists or attacking people on their porch?  In one case, no one will defend the cops. In the other, everyone rushes to defend the other scumbags.

There are hundreds of videos like this, just for Quebec.

Contrary to many on the left, I do not believe violence, verbal or physical, to be a solution to perceived problems.

But, it wasn't cancel culture.  Cancel Culture worse than death.  So you should be happy. 

Ok, it's nice to know that the next time someone complains about police brutality.  If it's ok for the left, it's got to be okay for the police too
My bad, sorry for thinking that all human beings deserved to be treated equally with dignity and respect in our societies.    I should have known it was pointless arguing this with the left.

[viper37]

Out of interest just because I've always had boycotts on the run (some I've inherited for obscure reasons), do you guys never boycott companies?

I've boycotted EA for a few years after Mass Effect 3.  I've boycotted Microsoft, except for Windows, for near 20 years, until I was forced to buy Office.  2010 was my first Office product.

[viper37]

Out of interest just because I've always had boycotts on the run (some I've inherited for obscure reasons), do you guys never boycott companies?

I avoid has much as I can the former state-owned companies. Bell, Petro-Canada, Air Canada are the main 3.

Bell was never a state-owned company.  Videotron, on the other hand, has benefited a lot from dubious state investments that made us lose millions of dollars.

[Admiral Yi]

Platoon!?
Major League!?
Wall Street!?
Young Guns!?

Seminal undercover cop biker movie Beyond the Law!?

How can you turn away!?

Overrated.
The good lines are all Gordon's.
Are you shitting me?
Huh?

[The Brain]

I boycott any show or movie with Keifer Sutherland or Charlie Sheen in it.

Exception for Lost Boys.

Do you boycott the companies that made them?

[Sheilbh]

Also just to pick up on the "bully" point. As I say I think there is a generational point on this. Partly that's down to different attitudes to racism - so in the UK there's been polling on attitudes and basically racism especially is something Millenials and Zoomers have zero tolerance for. For them it is never acceptable, while older generations are a bit more forgiving - possibly becase as they grew up it was more common.

But the other point around the culture of this is I think older Millenials are probably the last generation who could say they expect a distinction between their public and private lives as Malthus talk about. If you're born after 1990, you've always had the internet and more or less always had social media. As I say I think Foucault is relevant in this sort of distributed policing of social norms but socially we also created a panopticon and put kids into it where they could be observed at all times for whether they were following norms or not (including anti-racism).

And there's always been a cancel or call out culture on social media, especially during the Tumblr wars a few years back. That existed and, partly in response, to that so did the faux-ironic, racist/homophobic/misogynist trolling. I think both sides of that fight are present it's just Tumblr's in the real world now. It's also probably worth remembering that for all the excitement about the cancel culture side of this - only one side's elected a possibly joking, racist troll to the highest office in the land.

[Threviel]

I boycott Electrolux  / Frigidaire since my experience is that they sell junk and would rather spend several hundreds of their own dollars, spite their retailers and customers vs just spending a smaller amount to fix an inconsequential problem.

We bought all Electrolux white goods when we built the house in 2008, every thing has broken down at least once, several of them during guarantee time (the dishwasher twice in the first two years). +1 on that boycott.

[Malthus]

Also just to pick up on the "bully" point. As I say I think there is a generational point on this. Partly that's down to different attitudes to racism - so in the UK there's been polling on attitudes and basically racism especially is something Millenials and Zoomers have zero tolerance for. For them it is never acceptable, while older generations are a bit more forgiving - possibly becase as they grew up it was more common.

But the other point around the culture of this is I think older Millenials are probably the last generation who could say they expect a distinction between their public and private lives as Malthus talk about. If you're born after 1990, you've always had the internet and more or less always had social media. As I say I think Foucault is relevant in this sort of distributed policing of social norms but socially we also created a panopticon and put kids into it where they could be observed at all times for whether they were following norms or not (including anti-racism).

And there's always been a cancel or call out culture on social media, especially during the Tumblr wars a few years back. That existed and, partly in response, to that so did the faux-ironic, racist/homophobic/misogynist trolling. I think both sides of that fight are present it's just Tumblr's in the real world now. It's also probably worth remembering that for all the excitement about the cancel culture side of this - only one side's elected a possibly joking, racist troll to the highest office in the land.

I think it is a mistake to look on this as a question of "sides".

Both the trolls and the cancellers are products of the same system - the dysfunction that is, if not wrought by social media, certainly enabled and exacerbated by it, in that it creates multiple echo chambers in which extremes are celebrated, nuance is lost, and both shaming and the shameless are rampant — and in which each reinforce the other.

Look at Trump as an example. He loves social media, tweeting more than he communicates in any other manner. He's also completely shameless. His followers draw strength from the excesses of cancel culture, while cancellers draw strength from the excesses of him and his followers.

The people who lose out are those who possess a sense of shame (thus making them vulnerable to online bullying from cancellers for wrongthink) and who want to express ideas that they think will actually improve the world (thus are not Trumpite trolls, who simply want to 'own the libs' no matter that the world burns). It is they who are increasingly likely to conclude speaking out isn't worth it, leaving the media more free for Trumpites and cancel types to dominate discourse.

[mongers]

Also just to pick up on the "bully" point. As I say I think there is a generational point on this. Partly that's down to different attitudes to racism - so in the UK there's been polling on attitudes and basically racism especially is something Millenials and Zoomers have zero tolerance for. For them it is never acceptable, while older generations are a bit more forgiving - possibly becase as they grew up it was more common.

But the other point around the culture of this is I think older Millenials are probably the last generation who could say they expect a distinction between their public and private lives as Malthus talk about. If you're born after 1990, you've always had the internet and more or less always had social media. As I say I think Foucault is relevant in this sort of distributed policing of social norms but socially we also created a panopticon and put kids into it where they could be observed at all times for whether they were following norms or not (including anti-racism).

And there's always been a cancel or call out culture on social media, especially during the Tumblr wars a few years back. That existed and, partly in response, to that so did the faux-ironic, racist/homophobic/misogynist trolling. I think both sides of that fight are present it's just Tumblr's in the real world now. It's also probably worth remembering that for all the excitement about the cancel culture side of this - only one side's elected a possibly joking, racist troll to the highest office in the land.

I think it is a mistake to look on this as a question of "sides".

Both the trolls and the cancellers are products of the same system - the dysfunction that is, if not wrought by social media, certainly enabled and exacerbated by it, in that it creates multiple echo chambers in which extremes are celebrated, nuance is lost, and both shaming and the shameless are rampant — and in which each reinforce the other.

Look at Trump as an example. He loves social media, tweeting more than he communicates in any other manner. He's also completely shameless. His followers draw strength from the excesses of cancel culture, while cancellers draw strength from the excesses of him and his followers.

The people who lose out are those who possess a sense of shame (thus making them vulnerable to online bullying from cancellers for wrongthink) and who want to express ideas that they think will actually improve the world (thus are not Trumpite trolls, who simply want to 'own the libs' no matter that the world burns). It is they who are increasingly likely to conclude speaking out isn't worth it, leaving the media more free for Trumpites and cancel types to dominate discourse.

Indeed.

And there's a lot of truth in your last point especially.

[Razgovory]

Ok, it's nice to know that the next time someone complains about police brutality.  If it's ok for the left, it's got to be okay for the police too
My bad, sorry for thinking that all human beings deserved to be treated equally with dignity and respect in our societies.    I should have known it was pointless arguing this with the left.

You really don't get it.  I said you should be okay with it, not that I should be okay with it.  If you want to engage with the rest of the class you are going to need to get up to speed.

[viper37]

Platoon!?
Major League!?
Wall Street!?
Young Guns!?

Seminal undercover cop biker movie Beyond the Law!?

How can you turn away!?

Overrated.
The good lines are all Gordon's.
Are you shitting me?
Huh?

Young Guns 1&2 are great western movies
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096487/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100994/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Starring Charlie Sheen for #1, Kiefer Sutherland in both.

[viper37]

You really don't get it.  I said you should be okay with it, not that I should be okay with it.  If you want to engage with the rest of the class you are going to need to get up to speed.

Oh, you seem to approve of it just fine.

[Eddie Teach]

Regulators, mount up!