The Real problem with cancel culture

[Eddie Teach]

I thought one state was the conservative position?

[Razgovory]

And in the process, you lose your reputation, your friends, your carreer, your sources of income.
I'd prefer to be dead.

Then don't complain about left-wing activists using violence.

They're French speaking, so they were obviously racists, and I guess that justify this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwmnhIH6fS0
And another bunch of peace minded folks:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e45rBsiASao
The guy speaking describe how he was attacked by 3 antifas who asked him to identify himself and try to steal his wallet, most likely because they wanted to know where he lived so they could keep on harrassing him.

What's the difference between this and the police beating journalists or attacking people on their porch?  In one case, no one will defend the cops. In the other, everyone rushes to defend the other scumbags.

There are hundreds of videos like this, just for Quebec.

Contrary to many on the left, I do not believe violence, verbal or physical, to be a solution to perceived problems.

But, it wasn't cancel culture.  Cancel Culture worse than death.  So you should be happy. 

[Barrister]

I.e. it accuses him of racism for not agreeing with Kerstein's viewpoint and then proceeds to pure ad hom based on his "privilege".  It is like a Switftian parody of what conservatives criticize about "cancel culture", except it isn't.  It is in earnest and totally oblivious of its obvious hyprocrisy

And this is what Bari Weiss urges her followers to read as "brilliant and true" just days after signing the Harper's letter claiming that "The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away."

Fact is Weiss has her side and when it suits her she endorses the same tactics she deplores in others

I skimmed through Kerstein's article.  While it is very clearly an ad hominem attack on Beinart, but that is not what the talk about "cancel culture" is about.  At no point did Weiss or Kerstein demand that Beinart be fired, or suffer other such consequences.

[The Minsky Moment]

I skimmed through Kerstein's article.  While it is very clearly an ad hominem attack on Beinart, but that is not what the talk about "cancel culture" is about.  At no point did Weiss or Kerstein demand that Beinart be fired, or suffer other such consequences.

It is saying that he doesn't have the right to speak on the subject because of who he is.  It's a variant on the illiberal theme.

[Malthus]

Given the fact that the New York Times is the most famous and influential newspaper among educated Americans,  if not the world, I find its ongoing internal civil war to be interesting, and of rather high stakes if one is interested in the quality and objectivity of American media.

Except that the reality is that it really is just an commentariat spat and not a fight over the soul of American media.  Bari Weiss is not the great victimized crusader of truth, justice and objectivity going down fighting nobly against the dastardly Legions of Woke.  She is an op ed scribbler who sometimes makes good or interesting points and sometimes engages in the same BS as her detractors. I.e. no different from anyone else in the biz

Exhibit 1 is her retweet and comment from 2 days ago:
https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1281642849340141569

Bari Weiss
@bariweiss
This essay by @benj_kerstein  is brilliant and true.

And what is Mr. Kersteins' brilliant and true essay that earns Weiss' high praises?  It's a slam job on another commentator (Peter Beinart), who happens to be Jewish and recently advocated a one-state solution to the I-P conflict.

Is. Kersteins' brilliant and true essay based on a rigoruously objective analysis of Beinart's argument?  No it doesn't even discuss the substance of the argument.
Rather, he argues:
1) Beinart is a self hating Jew whose rejection of the traditional Zionist viewpoint makes him a racist.
2) Beinart's parents were well to do and he attended good schools, thus invalidating his viewpoint.

I.e. it accuses him of racism for not agreeing with Kerstein's viewpoint and then proceeds to pure ad hom based on his "privilege".  It is like a Switftian parody of what conservatives criticize about "cancel culture", except it isn't.  It is in earnest and totally oblivious of its obvious hyprocrisy

And this is what Bari Weiss urges her followers to read as "brilliant and true" just days after signing the Harper's letter claiming that "The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away."

Fact is Weiss has her side and when it suits her she endorses the same tactics she deplores in others

This doesn't make things better, it just illustrates the larger problem - that all sides increasingly use the same tactics. It's a general dumbing-down of discourse, fuelled by the ubiquity of social media.

The medium may not be the message, but it surely influences the content of messages. These days it is all too easy to mobilize millions of followers with emotive one-sided screeds. They don't have to be clever or insightful - only memorable, even if memorably dumb and cruel (your president's speciality). Bullying opponents works better than convincing them, and is certainly easier to accomplish in a Twitter. Bullying is of course more effective if it goes beyond mere words, to calls for action against hated targets - again, the use of social media makes this more effective (a single letter calling for a firing lacks the impact of hundreds of easily produced social media posts - and it is of course far easier and more anonymous to post than to write letters).


I know this sort of thing has always existed, but I do think there has been a change wrought by technology. An intensification, a polarization in which the extremes are favoured.

The problem we are seeing is that a culture of shaming apparently favours the shameless.

[grumbler]

I thought one state was the conservative position?

And I've not often seen right-wing writers claim that there are such things as "collective rights."  That's just one step away from racial reparations.

[Valmy]

I think the left is going too far and it will be no better than under Trump's boot.

I fully agree that cancel culture sucks and is a big problem on the left but it is not like the right doesn't also do it. It is one big shit sandwich served up to all.

[DGuller]

I'm sure the right would do it if they had the power, but it just so happens that the left has much better ties to the big corporations' virtue signalling departments.

[Valmy]

I'm sure the right would do it if they had the power, but it just so happens that the left has much better ties to the big corporations' virtue signalling departments.

Yep. It wasn't always that way though and they still try to do their boycott stuff.

[Razgovory]

I'm sure the right would do it if they had the power, but it just so happens that the left has much better ties to the big corporations' virtue signalling departments.

There is no "would" they already do it.  Example:  Sam Seder.

[Valmy]

I'm sure the right would do it if they had the power, but it just so happens that the left has much better ties to the big corporations' virtue signalling departments.

There is no "would" they already do it.  Example:  Sam Seder.

The most dramatic destruction of a career I have ever seen was the Dixie Chicks by right wingers. That was insane just because it occured so suddenly at the height of their stardom. But, granted, pre-twitter.

[Josquius]

The far right doesn't like what they're saying they murder you.

Rarely so, because they are usually watched carefully by authorities.

The far left doesn't like what you're saying they are mean to you on twitter and boycott what you're selling.

And in the process, you lose your reputation, your friends, your carreer, your sources of income.
I'd prefer to be dead.

Say you have some awful beliefs and spread them publically. You go too far with one and bring down a twitter storm on you, lose your job, etc....
And then you say sorry. Admit you were wrong. Rebuild your life. It may take a while for everyone to get the memo but the left will leave you alone. You will be allowed back into society.

On the other hand if you're transgender or the like then even shutting up about politics won't save you. Your very existence is the problem.

[The Larch]

I'm sure the right would do it if they had the power, but it just so happens that the left has much better ties to the big corporations' virtue signalling departments.

There is no "would" they already do it.  Example:  Sam Seder.

The most dramatic destruction of a career I have ever seen was the Dixie Chicks by right wingers. That was insane just because it occured so suddenly at the height of their stardom. But, granted, pre-twitter.

Or more recently, Colin Kaepernick.

[Eddie Teach]

NFL careers are usually short and owners/managers focused on winning above politics. I'm inclined to believe he doesn't have the goods anymore.

[Sheilbh]

The most dramatic destruction of a career I have ever seen was the Dixie Chicks by right wingers. That was insane just because it occured so suddenly at the height of their stardom. But, granted, pre-twitter.

I mean lots of conservatives were disappointed in the last month because the Supreme Court said you couldn't just fire people because they're gay.

NFL careers are usually short and owners/managers focused on winning above politics. I'm inclined to believe he doesn't have the goods anymore.

And hasn't for any of the last 4-5 years?