Simulation Hypothesis

[Caliga]

Source article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

I found this to be fascinating.  Basically, the idea is that if a technologically advanced civilization was able to create a simulation of an entire reality (i.e. like in the Matrix), then that simulation is likely to eventually be able to create one or more subordinate full-reality simulations, which themselves are likely to create child full-reality simulations, etc. at an exponential growth rate.  Therefore, any self-aware being is far, far more likely to be in fact a simulated construct than an intelligent biological organism. 

[Viking]

So, I find a simple civilisation on another planet and wish to exploit them. Why should I bother to do so when A) killing them all B) building robots to replace their labour would be easier?

[Caliga]

  This doesn't really have anything to do with alien civilizations at all.  It's more like this:

Future Spellus decides to construct an artificial reality simulation set during the Byzantine Empire he can observe for fun, or to try to test some hypothesis, or whatever.  Future Spellus doesn't set any limits on the sim and just lets it run on infinitely, which it does.  The Simulated Byzantines eventually evolve to a technological level far in advance of that of present-day earth, and begin setting up their own reality simulations, which are basically sub-simulations since, unbeknownst to them, the Simulated Byzantines themselves are sims.  Eventually, some or all of these sub-simulations set up their own sub-simulations, and the process continues with the occurrence of simulated realities growing exponentially.

[Valmy]

This doesn't really have anything to do with alien civilizations at all.  It's more like this:

Future Spellus decides to construct an artificial reality simulation set during the Byzantine Empire he can observe for fun, or to try to test some hypothesis, or whatever.  Future Spellus doesn't set any limits on the sim and just lets it run on infinitely, which it does.  The Simulated Byzantines eventually evolve to a technological level far in advance of that of present-day earth, and begin setting up their own reality simulations, which are basically sub-simulations since, unbeknownst to them, the Simulated Byzantines themselves are sims.  Eventually, some or all of these sub-simulations set up their own sub-simulations, and the process continues with the occurrence of simulated realities growing exponentially.

This sounds like that Bjork video where they keep having plays within plays.

[Viking]

This doesn't really have anything to do with alien civilizations at all.  It's more like this:

Future Spellus decides to construct an artificial reality simulation set during the Byzantine Empire he can observe for fun, or to try to test some hypothesis, or whatever.  Future Spellus doesn't set any limits on the sim and just lets it run on infinitely, which it does.  The Simulated Byzantines eventually evolve to a technological level far in advance of that of present-day earth, and begin setting up their own reality simulations, which are basically sub-simulations since, unbeknownst to them, the Simulated Byzantines themselves are sims.  Eventually, some or all of these sub-simulations set up their own sub-simulations, and the process continues with the occurrence of simulated realities growing exponentially.

So what you are getting at is not The Matrix, but rather The Sims?

[Caliga]

Actually yeah, I guess The Sims is a much better analogy.

[Barrister]

Where's the "Who Gives A Fuck" answer?

If you can create a simulated reality that is absolutely indistinguishable from reality it is, well, real.

[Valmy]

This also reminds me of that quote from Alpha Centauri:

We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

-Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7 (Subject termination advised)

[Ed Anger]

d) The Matrix sucked.

[jimmy olsen]

Where's the "Who Gives A Fuck" answer?

If you can create a simulated reality that is absolutely indistinguishable from reality it is, well, real.

But would that make Spellus a god? And if so should you worship him?

[Caliga]

Where's the "Who Gives A Fuck" answer?

If you can create a simulated reality that is absolutely indistinguishable from reality it is, well, real.

I think that is only partly correct.  In a simulated reality, I suppose an external operator could simply change some of the rules of the simulation at a whim... he could, for example, reverse gravity or make time flow in reverse.  In a 'real' reality, I would think that the laws of physics, etc. are basically unchanging.

Perhaps the external operator is who some people refer to as 'God'.  I guess in a sense Marti is the God of his session of The Sims. 

[Caliga]

This also reminds me of that quote from Alpha Centauri:

We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

-Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7 (Subject termination advised)

That is basically an updated quote from Rene Descartes--which you might have known, but I'm just pointing it out.

[PDH]

The problem with reality is that it could just be made up.

[Neil]

At some point, there has to be some hardware running the simulation.  Eventually, you're going to run out of processing power, even if the original civilization is willing to pour all their resources into such a simulation, which they of course would not be.

Thus, the correct answer is that this is a bunch of nonsense dreamed up by a bunch of philosophy majors who were watching the Matrix after they got off their shifts at Starbucks.  Or maybe Reboot.  Whatever.  The point is that they're stupid, and should weep at their own goofiness.

[swallow]

Heh, and what if, by some Kirk quark quirk of the space time continuum the sub sub sub.... sim was programming the first programmer